Stage 14 - Colmar - Besancon SPOILER

afx237vi

aurelio wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

he was looking around, sure, but he hardly made an effort to move off his line.

Look closely. Cavendish looks to his left and leaves a big gap on his right, Hushvod starts to go past. Cavendish looks to the right and then moves across to block him. The barries don't 'bulge', it's just the road markings making it look as though they do. Do the Tour organisers usually include bulges that extend 4-5 feet into the road (the gap on Cavendish's right when he looks back) in the last 50 m of sprint? I don't think so! What's more it's clear that the whole Columbia team were working together to try to box in Hushvod.

I see what you're saying, but I'm still not convinced it was worthy of a DQ. How many times do you reckon a move like that takes place in a regular bunch sprint? The jury only acted because Cavendish did it to Hushovd. If it had involved any other riders, no-one would have even noticed.

PS - I remember there was also a big debate about whether the barriers were straight in the Theo Bos / Daryl Impey incident. Amazingly, Bos wasn't relegated for that move!

avoidingmyphd

Philip S wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

i think they were working for the slowest sprint possible rather than trying to box anyone in weren't they?

Maybe that was the problem?

oh, I agree with that. I just disagree with aurelio's reading of the road markings.

to be clear - what thr did wrong was try to hit two incompatible goals at once. they wanted cav to win a sprint, but slow enough to keep the gap big enough for hincapie. this meant a pretty ridiculous lead out that went more slowly than usual, bunched things up and exposed them to the risk of decisions going against them.

blazing_saddles

Whatever, but the green jersey competition has effectively ended.
No way is the wunderkid capable of winning it on the road.
4 mountain stages and the Aubenas stage has a 14km 2nd cat, just before the finish.
Thor would have won the last week battle in anycase.
So, he either slogs to the Champs, in the hope that Hushovd falls off, just rides for another stage win, or pulls out.

If he stays and I were Columbia, they could always screw with Sastre's chances, by making Cervelo chase all over the place.

Kléber

Maybe it's a harsh decision from race officials but it'll do Cav good to reduce the size of his ego for a few days, and then extract revenge on the Champs-Elysees.

stagehopper

That's a shocking DQ.

Le Commentateur

Kléber wrote:

Maybe it's a harsh decision from race officials but it'll do Cav good to reduce the size of his ego for a few days, and then extract revenge on the Champs-Elysees.

Indeed. If he has a chance to still win maybe it will actually keep the competition exciting right to the final sprint.

stagehopper

btw Robbie McEwen:

# Cav didn't really move much, barrier did but looking over shoulder lining up Thor is what judges would have dq'd him for. full dq harsh

# most they should have done if anything was reverse placings.

# Cav DQ.Trying analyse impartially-both mates of mine.Calling it like i see it.Sprinting tactically is very fine line.I lost a green by DQ

# if Cav hadn't had a look, he wouldn't been DQ'd I think. Fine line.again, total dq is OTT. shame to ruin a gd battle. gd luck to both

aurelio_-_banned

Some real nonsense from Cycling Weakly's report on this incident.

Although Cavendish did visibly move to his right in the final metres, he was expecting Hushovd to come up on his left shoulder, which is the one he was looking over.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... ellow.html

A very odd thing to say when Hushovd was blocked on the left by Cavendish's teammate and the video clearly shows Cavendish looking to the right before he makes his move to put Hushovd into the barriers!

Kléber

Cavendish can appeal.

blazing_saddles

Kléber wrote:

Maybe it's a harsh decision from race officials but it'll do Cav good to reduce the size of his ego for a few days, and then extract revenge on the Champs-Elysees.

Thor ain't far behind. Two, days, two sprints, two mouthings off.

rjh299

He did look back but he's in the lead, it's Hushovd job to come round him. If you look at Cav's line you can see he doesn't come across Hushovd. The only time it looks close is when Cav stands up to sprint and his bike swings to the side. It's the barrier that closes the gap. Cav's racing in the TDF, he's not gonna let Hushovd win. If he wants it he needs to posiiton himself better and go round Cav.

takethehighroad

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Maybe it's a harsh decision from race officials but it'll do Cav good to reduce the size of his ego for a few days, and then extract revenge on the Champs-Elysees.

Thor ain't far behind. Two, days, two sprints, two mouthings off.

To be honest I think it was an accumulation of things, not just Cav moving across on him. Starting from yesterday, he was annoyed that Velits pinched the points then today he was on the wrong end of a rough deal from Columbia, who as a team were trying to block him in.

frenchfighter

Once again those in charge make poor judgements.

It is in their interests for the competition for all jerseys to be as close as possible. With Cav DQ, they have taken out some of the spice. I hope the decision is reversed or at least a punishment less harsh is taken.

Thor's take:
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/ ... l=14578557

rjh299

Thor's talking sh1t

frenchfighter

The look on Cav's face is priceless!

Eurostar

I wonder if Cav's perception as 'arrogant' has earned him a harsher punishment? If you were voting for least popular rider with the organisers this year it would probably be him. The French don't like foreign youngsters who don't show adequate respect.

I don't understand Columbia's tactics. If they wanted to slow the sprint and keep Cav in green would it not have been better to have no train at all and get Cav to sit on Hushovd's wheel?

rjh299

Eurostar wrote:

I wonder if Cav's perception as 'arrogant' has earned him a harsher punishment? If you were voting for least popular rider with the organisers this year it would probably be him. The French don't like foreign youngsters who don't show adequate respect.

I don't understand Columbia's tactics. If they wanted to slow the sprint and keep Cav in green would it not have been better to have no train at all and get Cav to sit on Hushovd's wheel?

That would have probably slowed it down but having a lead out puts you in control. So you can be in best position and 'go' when you want, and don't get boxed in. If Hushovd had a lead out he wouldn't have been ill positioned.

Moomaloid

Just seen the overhead... BULLSH!T decision! :shock:

mmitchell88

Kléber wrote:

Cavendish can appeal.

Martin Bruin doesn't appear to agree - ITV4 highlights. Looking bleak for Cavendish.

Kléber

Eurostar wrote:

The French don't like foreign youngsters who don't show adequate respect.

Except the commissaires on the race are an international lot, headed by Dutchman Martin Bruin.

frenchfighter

Do you think that Pettachi got a DQ here?! You can clearly see he pulls across his line seriously and causes a major crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atLARyU24kU

grimpeur

Fantastic, couldn't have happened to a better person, especially as Cavendish's leadout train probably cost Hincapie the yellow jersey.

I hope Thor can carry the jersey to Paris now.

jackhammer111 - banned

aurelio wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

he was looking around, sure, but he hardly made an effort to move off his line.

Look closely. Cavendish looks to his left and leaves a big gap on his right, Hushovd starts to go past. Cavendish looks to the right and then moves across to block him. The barries don't 'bulge', it's just the road markings making it look as though they do. Do the Tour organisers usually include bulges that extend 4-5 feet into the road (the gap on Cavendish's right when he looks back) in the last 50 m of sprint? I don't think so! What's more it's clear that the whole Columbia team were working together to try to box in Hushovd.

If they are claiming it happened between the last little bend and the end I just don't see it.

The only little swerve to the right came in the last ten meters and Hurshov wasn't there. It would be different if he had a run going, stuck his wheel up there and had to back off but that's not the way I see it.

Harsh.

rjh299

Frenchfighter

Does he cause the crash? He pulls across a lot but from that video it looks like Lotto rider's front wheel slides out and he takes McEwen down with him. Can't tell if Petacchi's clips Lotto's front wheel but if he doesn't then he doesn't cause crash. He still moves amssively off his line though so not sure on DQ.

Quite Frankly

I really don't think the Columbia train cost George the yellow jersey. If anything they were attempting to slow things down in the last 2km or so. It was the GARMIN rider on the front of the peleton who rode very hard on the front of the peleton for 8-10km of the last 10-12km who cost George yellow.

Any idea who that GARMIN rider was? Fellow Americans, Pate or Zabriskie, perhaps?

All going off on twitter...

campagchris

I just heard JAWS say on itv4 highlight programme "they can appeal but I wont change MY mind" Surely HE can't make that Decision on HIS own.
The mighty Thor my arse more mighty mouse.I know what Abdoujaparov would have done with him in their next gallop.

aurelio_-_banned

Some people seem to be looking at a different sprint finish to me. So here are some stills of the finsih.

After a bit of argy-bargy, with Cavendish leaning on Hushovd with his right shoulder and his team mates blocking on the left, the sprint opens up. Note the large gap on the right between Cavendish and the barrier, which Hushovd has no option but to go for as he is blocked in on the left by Cavendish's leadout man and the other rider.



Cavendish looks to the right and sees Hushovd beginning to come past, so he starts his move to shut the door on him.



Notice how far Cavendish has already moved across in this shot as compared to the first image, and how straight the run of the barriers is.



In the next picture Cavendish has shut the door completely. Notice that although the barriers do seem to narrow in from the right very slightly, Cavendish is still much further over to the right with reference to the centre line than in the first and second images.

This and the next shot also show that most of the apparent curvature of the barriers is not due so much to the road narrowing to the left, but due to it opening up further in the last few metres, immediately after this point. (Also note the curved junction markings on the road that in a moving shot acts to exaggerate the degree to which the barriers seem to 'bulge').



In this last shot we can clearly see how the road widens up further, but now it is only a few metres to the line and is too late for Hushovd to do anything.

mididoctors

campagchris wrote:

I just heard JAWS say on itv4 highlight programme "they can appeal but I wont change MY mind" Surely HE can't make that Decision on HIS own.
The mighty Thor my ars* more mighty mouse.I know what Abdoujaparov would have done with him in their next gallop.

stagehopper

the barriers bulge, Cavendish stays straight with respect to the central line.

aurelio_-_banned

stagehopper wrote:

the barriers bulge, Cavendish stays straight with respect to the central line.

Look at pictures 2 (the one where he is looking back) and 3. Cavendish is clearly further over to the right with respects to the road centre markings in the second!