Stage 14 - Colmar - Besancon SPOILER

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Comments

  • mgcycleguy
    mgcycleguy Posts: 292
    marinerrr wrote:
    Video of the Cav-Thor sprint here.

    To be honest, I don't see that it looked dangerous enough to warrant relegation. Will be very interesting to see what Columbia have got to say about today though, on top of all this finger-pointing from LA over Hincapie and Garmin.


    ... to decide a jersey because of that is just silly... anybody now are counter appeals allowed ?
  • deal
    deal Posts: 857
    mgcycleguy wrote:
    anybody now are counter appeals allowed ?

    and what about counter counter appeals :roll:
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Cav knew the barriers were there though didn't he? And he was looking round for where Hushovd was rather than going for the sprint.

    He benefitted in the Giro last year when Bennati could have put him in the barriers but didn't

    Sure, but Hushovd knew the barriers were there too. A sprinter doesn't have to move out of the way to let someone else get some room, his only responsibility is to stay in a straight line.
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited July 2009
    marinerrr wrote:
    Video of the Cav-Thor sprint here.

    To be honest, I don't see that it looked dangerous enough to warrant relegation.
    Whoa! That was so blatant. Cavendish looked back to his right, saw him coming past and closed the door on him! And the 'bulging barrier' looks like nothing more than an optical illusion caused by the way the barriers cross the road markings. As the man says, aye aye, aye, aye!
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    afx237vi wrote:
    A sprinter doesn't have to move out of the way to let someone else get some room, his only responsibility is to stay in a straight line.
    Which Cavendish clearly didn't!
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    aurelio wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    A sprinter doesn't have to move out of the way to let someone else get some room, his only responsibility is to stay in a straight line.
    Which Cavendish clearly didn't!

    Oh please, he was looking around, sure, but he hardly made an effort to move off his line. It's a sprint. Riders move. Hushovd had an opportunity to get into a better position a few seconds earlier and chose not to take it.

    I'm no Cav-fan, but to DQ someone for that is ridiculous.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    edited July 2009
    afx237vi wrote:
    This will kill Hincapie's chances... he needs to ditch the rest and give it full gas, TT style.

    Agreed definitely, once the Russian had 30 seconds with 3 or 4 kms to go only a charging sprinters' peloton would have reeled him in. At that point the race win was gone and it should have been TT mode for Hincapie, not watching the bluffs and attacks from the rest of the breakaways. So ultimately and despite all the twittering arguments as to which teams were at fault, I think George has yet again pulled defeat from the jaws of victory.

    But, an interesting stage for once!
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,057
    Surely that is "dumb" riding by Thor? He must have known about that right kink in the final sprint area, so why would he choose to try and overtake Cav on the right?

    If Thor is level with Cav approaching the kink, Cav needs to leave Thor enough room (as in keep his line). However, there is almost no overlap approaching the kink, so surely Cav can place his bike where he pleases?

    Well that's how it would be viewed by stewards in a car race... Seems a little harsh, but perhaps there are different rules for sprint cyling finishes?
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  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    I wouldn't like to be on the Columbia bus this evening. Cav makes the team ride in the closing miles and ends up keeping Nocentini in yellow and all so he can get relegated.

    Still, with four stage wins and maybe more to come, I don't think the team will mind too much.
  • doddy178
    doddy178 Posts: 66
    It's a pathetic thing, the judges could be seen as anti-british.
    First the wiggins seconds, now this.
    (i joke of course)
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    deal wrote:
    deliberate imo, Cavendish spent more time looking back than forward.

    I don't think it was for various reasons... BUT from a race POV you have to assume so..

    its harsh but the whole columbia train sprint was a deliberate ploy of somewhat dubious merit safety wise so Columbia can't be too surprised if they are had up.

    I don't think columbia's and cav's position is defensible..

    we will see


    shame about the contest but blame Columbia IMO
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    Or maybe it was smart riding by Thor... anyway bad day all round for Columbia. Funny how it goes, it was looking quite rosey at 10 kms to go.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Kléber wrote:
    I wouldn't like to be on the Columbia bus this evening. Cav makes the team ride in the closing miles and ends up keeping Nocentini in yellow and all so he can get relegated.

    Still, with four stage wins and maybe more to come, I don't think the team will mind too much.

    I bet cav is fuming... and its his own fault

    lessons of life...

    and to think bob was in the booth with harmon talking about cav's personal development plan and coaching...

    I start reaching for a large blunt object when i start hearing all that selfophicy claptrap
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Philip S
    Philip S Posts: 398
    Did Cav really need a train at the end there? Would a better bet have been for Columbia to have kept out of the way and Cav to sit on Thor's wheel for once? That way, they might have got yellow and some sprint points...
  • mgcycleguy
    mgcycleguy Posts: 292
    "Just saw todays sprint on TV. Cav did nothig but hold his line in the sprint as always. It was the barrier that moved in. What BS" .. micheal Rogers (on twitter)

    .. says it all really
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    edited July 2009
    Well, I'm certainly no huge fan of Cav, but that it truly harsh.

    I've watched it in slow mo, several times and he hardly changes his line at all.
    On the contrary, there does appear to be a slight bow in the barrier alignment, then, it opens out, around the curve.

    So, if the French want to play the overly officious bureaucrats that they are known to be, that's up to them.

    If I were Cav and they don't reverse this decision, I think I'd pull out, now, rather than slog over the Alps for a week, with the Green Jersey gone and only victory on the Champs to play for.
    Leave them with a week's worth of egg on their faces, with another no contest competition.
    Cap off this shit tour.

    Have a couple of Vuelta weeks, instead.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    edited July 2009
    mididoctors wrote:
    deal wrote:
    deliberate imo, Cavendish spent more time looking back than forward.

    I don't think it was for various reasons... BUT from a race POV you have to assume so..

    its harsh but the whole columbia train sprint was a deliberate ploy of somewhat dubious merit safety wise so Columbia can't be too surprised if they are had up.

    I don't think columbia's and cav's position is defensible..

    we will see


    shame about the contest but blame Columbia IMO
    I agree, it wasn't purely about Cav's sprint, but a Columbia team effort to deliberately box Hushovd in. That's normal practice in preparations for a mass bunch sprint, but not in the final meters and not if it's a race between two riders for points. I agree that Columbia's sprint tactics towards Hushovd went beyond what is decent, and disqualifying anyone but Cavendish would be meaningless.
  • doddy178
    doddy178 Posts: 66
    I just think that Cavendish yes moves off his line, but not by that much.

    It's a dumb decision by the judges and one Cervelo wanted to protest to (in effect) win the green jersey.

    In my opinion, the green jersey has just been won and lost.
  • campagchris
    campagchris Posts: 773
    Abdoujaparov would have waltzed through that gap.The sprint wasn't that fast as columbia were slowing it up for hincapie so why didn't the mighty Thor God of thunder throw the hammer down.It stinks.
    Didn't the mighty Thor not try the same thing with Cav.the other day and cav just moved him out the way.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    campagchris wrote:
    Abdoujaparov would have waltzed through that gap.The sprint wasn't that fast as columbia were slowing it up for hincapie so why didn't the mighty Thor God of thunder throw the hammer down.It stinks.
    Didn't the mighty Thor not try the same thing with Cav.the other day and cav just moved him out the way.
    :lol:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I agree with those saying it wasn't just what Cav did but rather the whole behaviour of High Horse. Cav would be the only person to benefit from it so it's right and proper he takes the punishment.

    Perhaps if he'd bothered sprinting for points on the road earlier in the race it wouldn't have come to this, eh?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    doddy178 wrote:

    In my opinion, the green jersey has just been won and lost.

    There's a week to go yet. Cav has to claw back points on the road, not just sit back and wait for the finish line in Paris. There's always the (slim) possibility that Thor will weaken or even not finish. Don't be defeatist, the glass is still 1/3rd full.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • doddy178
    doddy178 Posts: 66
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    doddy178 wrote:

    In my opinion, the green jersey has just been won and lost.

    There's a week to go yet. Cav has to claw back points on the road, not just sit back and wait for the finish line in Paris. There's always the (slim) possibility that Thor will weaken or even not finish. Don't be defeatist, the glass is still 1/3rd full.

    Well, i'm hoping he wins in Paris. I'm planning on being there, and the union jack will be on the barrier with pride.
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited July 2009
    afx237vi wrote:
    he was looking around, sure, but he hardly made an effort to move off his line.
    Look closely. Cavendish looks to his left and leaves a big gap on his right, Hushovd starts to go past. Cavendish looks to the right and then moves across to block him. The barries don't 'bulge', it's just the road markings making it look as though they do. Do the Tour organisers usually include bulges that extend 4-5 feet into the road (the gap on Cavendish's right when he looks back) in the last 50 m of sprint? I don't think so! What's more it's clear that the whole Columbia team were working together to try to box in Hushovd.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    edited July 2009
    iainf72 wrote:
    I agree with those saying it wasn't just what Cav did but rather the whole behaviour of High Horse. Cav would be the only person to benefit from it so it's right and proper he takes the punishment.

    Perhaps if he'd bothered sprinting for points on the road earlier in the race it wouldn't have come to this, eh?

    if they had just lead it out as normal the situation would have been the same as the one they achieved before the DQ.... despite all the blocking tactics in the final 150m!
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Philip S
    Philip S Posts: 398
    iainf72 wrote:
    Perhaps if he'd bothered sprinting for points on the road earlier in the race it wouldn't have come to this, eh?

    Agreed, Iain. Both of today's big issues can't really be taken viewed in isolation of the rest of the Tour. It'd surely be a bad thing if Cav could take the green jersey almost as an after-thought - you want the riders to be working for that from day one. And if you want to be taking yellow, it's fine line to judge just how many seconds to lose in other stages to be allowed into a break that will get you back up there. (Clearly, this is a bit harsh on "Big" George as he probably didn't have any plans for yellow until today, but he lost those 5 seconds somewhere else and either didn't have enough left or didn't bother to give it plenty in those last 4 or 5kms...) Maybe he'll just have to earn it by attacking the leaders on the climb to Verbier...
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    aurelio wrote:
    Look closely. ... The barries don't 'bulge', it's just the road markings making it look as though they do.

    Well, if the sprint was parallel to the road, which I assume it was, and the race was going up the road, which I assume it was, then this doesn't work aurelio! if the barriers deviate from the road markings then they bulge!
    aurelio wrote:
    What's more it's clear that the whole Columbia team were working together to try to box in Hushvod.

    i think they were working for the slowest sprint possible rather than trying to box anyone in weren't they?
  • Philip S
    Philip S Posts: 398
    avoidingmyphd wrote:
    i think they were working for the slowest sprint possible rather than trying to box anyone in weren't they?

    Maybe that was the problem?
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    edited July 2009
    avoidingmyphd wrote:
    if the barriers deviate from the road markings then they bulge!
    Not at all, the makings in question come in from the right, where there is clearly a side turning. In fact the riders cross over a painted island separating the lanes out just before the line, so the straight line of the finish crosses over the curved markings of a junction.
  • k2rider
    k2rider Posts: 575
    i cant understand what the protest was all about, maybe if hushvod and cervelo actually did some work for a change hushvod wouldnt be in the situation where hes following cav where ever he goes and gets boxed in, what does he really expect in such a slow bunch sprint such as todays? oh lets stay here claim we were boxed and get him d/q`d pathetic would he have got past him? no. has he beaten him in any sprint so far? no, so what makes today any different? got to feel for george though, 5 seconds, if anyone deserves a day in yellow its george. i hope thr appeal and get the points back.
    who cares?

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