Armstrong vs Contador

frenchfighter

I'm not saying he wasn't or isn't a good rider even if he is far from the type of rider I like on and off the bike. If he beat riders who were proven dopers (Basso, Ullrich, Virenque, Pantani) then he must have been a good rider.

Just saying that if you think he was/is clean then I don't know what to say to you.

The way he denies it harder and for longer than any cyclist is another reason I don't like him as well as all the reasons afx237vi mentionned and a few more besides. Imagine if there was unrefutable evidence that he doped seriously - imagine the ramifications it would have for cycling. If a person only knows one cyclist it will be him, and so on news of his doping, all these people will have a bad image of our sport, which is another reason I dislike him.

ombwiri

The turning point for me was this (Guardian.co.uk)

Now I know that a lot of cyclists kept Omerta but Armstrong's actions then were just too much.

Justpush

andy_wrx wrote:

Well he got his team doctor to write him one after he tested positive for it...

2B48 The DCO shall invite the Athlete to declare the following information on the Sample
Collection Form regarding medications taken prior to the Sample Collection session:
a) where applicable, a declaration by the Athlete of medication, supplements and blood
transfusions taken within seven (7) days of Sample Collection; and
b) where applicable, and in accordance with the International Standard for Therapeutic
Use Exemption, a declaration by the Athlete of the use of glucocorticosteroids, taken
within one (1) month of Sample Collection, where the route of administration was
intra-articular, periarticular, peritendinous, epidural or intradermal injection or an
inhaled route.

The route of administration was non of these.
The level found was minute.
But hey lets keep the nonsense +ve drug test of a cleared rider going.
Head you lose, tails you lose.

micron

The thing is, Armstrong had no TUEs for the 99 Tour and said as much to Equipe - not for steroids, not for EPO, nothing. I think you're inviting a misinterpretation of the rules, Justpush.

dave_1

Pruedhomme has designed the route for LA I think. Had the there been two hard summits yesterday and today and a longer individual TT prior to them, LA would be out of the GC race cause of his lack of race fitness...but as it is...he's getting a week of racing with no huge tests, then a rest day and three more days of flat racing...which benefit him as he is very under raced, not Contador or others...

rokkala

NapoleonD wrote:

Anyone fancy a pint?

If your buying

Mettan

So the quip about Lance is true - whoever Lance decides wins the race........ wins - (namely Lance) -

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/arti ... if-attacks

Contador, says he won't follow.

** (moved post to this thread)

moray_gub

DaveyL wrote:

And the reason for that? "My enemy's enemy is my friend". Wind the forum back 12 months and AC's name was mud on here. Lance announces his comeback and all of a sudden it's poor, dear, sweet Bertie...

Yep there are a few regular posters in here who are now viewing Bertie as some kind of 2nd coming of christ after being very fierce ctitics of his last year. At least i am consistent in liking Berie as a rider before Lance's comeback and during it.

jackhammer111 - banned

frenchfighter wrote:

The way he denies it harder and for longer than any cyclist is another reason I don't like him

No other cyclist has ever been in his situation. L'Equipe publishes after he's won 7 times that he was dirty in is first win and you think he should have said... yea.. you got me. You know that nobody tough enough to do what he did would ever give in to something like that. You're image of him would have been no better if he had.

frenchfighter wrote:

Imagine if there was unrefutable evidence that he doped seriously - imagine the ramifications it would have for cycling. If a person only knows one cyclist it will be him, and so on news of his doping, all these people will have a bad image of our sport, which is another reason I dislike him.

don't worry.. he's clean..

dave_1

Justpush wrote:

andy_wrx wrote:

Well he got his team doctor to write him one after he tested positive for it...

2B48 The DCO shall invite the Athlete to declare the following information on the Sample
Collection Form regarding medications taken prior to the Sample Collection session:
a) where applicable, a declaration by the Athlete of medication, supplements and blood
transfusions taken within seven (7) days of Sample Collection; and
b) where applicable, and in accordance with the International Standard for Therapeutic
Use Exemption, a declaration by the Athlete of the use of glucocorticosteroids, taken
within one (1) month of Sample Collection, where the route of administration was
intra-articular, periarticular, peritendinous, epidural or intradermal injection or an
inhaled route.

The route of administration was non of these.
The level found was minute.
But hey lets keep the nonsense +ve drug test of a cleared rider going.
Head you lose, tails you lose.

so he didn't need a TUE ?

NervexProf

Mind games ?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 703740.ece

Eurostar

Dave_1 wrote:

Pruedhomme has designed the route for LA I think. Had the there been two hard summits yesterday and today and a longer individual TT prior to them, LA would be out of the GC race cause of his lack of race fitness...but as it is...he's getting a week of racing with no huge tests, then a rest day and three more days of flat racing...which benefit him as he is very under raced, not Contador or others...

Interesting point. But perhaps it's more likely that Prudhomme foresaw there would be no serious rivals to AC, so he took away the opportunities for AC to build up a big lead in the first two weeks of the race?

frenchfighter

Transcript of Contador's press conference if you missed it:

http://www.roadcycling.com/interviews/A ... 2875.shtml

frenchfighter

Glad this one is settled for now. Glad it was the guy I was routing for.

Now we can discuss the monstrous style of Lance now...or maybe it is too ghastly to discuss.

dennisn

frenchfighter wrote:

Glad this one is settled for now. Glad it was the guy I was routing for.

Now we can discuss the monstrous style of Lance now...or maybe it is too ghastly to discuss.
Getty

Reuters

Getty
Check out the Lance fan boys...LOL

Getty
Even the Danish PM has mopre style...LOFL

Seriously though, can someone explain to me why he thinks he is special enough to deserve custom bikes and cannot wear team kit like every other rider? Normally special kit or pain jobs are EARNED.

Why do you care? If you had people "chomping at the bit" wanting to design clothes, bikes, wheels, paint jobs, and the like for you, would you say no?

afx237vi

dennisn wrote:

Why do you care? If you had people "chomping at the bit" wanting to design clothes, bikes, wheels, paint jobs, and the like for you, would you say no?

When they look like that: yes.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Seriously though, can someone explain to me why he thinks he is special enough to deserve custom bikes and cannot wear team kit like every other rider? Normally special kit or pain jobs are EARNED.

He has won the Tour de France 7 times. I'd say that's at least moderately special.

frenchfighter

Normally special kit or paint jobs are EARNED.

dennisn

afx237vi wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Why do you care? If you had people "chomping at the bit" wanting to design clothes, bikes, wheels, paint jobs, and the like for you, would you say no?

When they look like that: yes.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. And you don't pimp yourself and your bike up a bit when you go out riding?

PeteinSQ

I think it is a little unfair to have a go at Armstrong over the Livestrong branded kit. The one thing that he certainly hasn't done wrong is promote the cause of cancer treatment through his charity so promoting it by wearing branded clothing is only a sensible bit of promotion.

His custom bikes do tend to be a bit ugly though. But then have you noticed that more and more riders are getting custom kit. They nearly all wear custom shoes now.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Normally special kit or pain jobs are EARNED.

What more do you want him to do? Juggle penguins on a unicycle?

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Normally special kit or pain jobs are EARNED.

What more do you want him to do? Juggle penguins on a unicycle?

You don't seem to understand. Grabsch has a special paint job on his TT bike - he is World TT champion. Pozzato has a custom Ridley - he is Italian champion. Ivanov has a custom Ridley - he is Russian champion. Thor has a custom Cervelo - he is in the green jersey. Etc.

That goes for all the national road and tt kits too.

I see no other rider on rest days riding in kit that is not team kit apart from Lance.

afx237vi

dennisn wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Why do you care? If you had people "chomping at the bit" wanting to design clothes, bikes, wheels, paint jobs, and the like for you, would you say no?

When they look like that: yes.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. And you don't pimp yourself and your bike up a bit when you go out riding?

If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Normally special kit or pain jobs are EARNED.

What more do you want him to do? Juggle penguins on a unicycle?

You don't seem to understand. Grabsch has a special paint job on his TT bike - he is World TT champion. Pozzato has a custom Ridley - he is Italian champion. Ivanov has a custom Ridley - he is Russian champion. Etc.

That goes for all the national road and tt kits too.

I see no other rider on rest days riding in kit that is not team kit apart from Lance.

Axel Merckx used to ride on completely different bike to the rest of his team.

Like Cipollini, when you have Armstrong's palmares, you can ride and wear what the hell you like for all I care.

frenchfighter

Another point that I heard yesterday on rtbf commentary.

- Lance arrived at Astana's hotel in a special envoy 43mins ahead of Contador and the rest of them team in the team bus.

- One time on a transfer in the Tour, basically every team bus and all Tour vehicles were stopped on the motorway as there was a fire. All of a sudden a police car came past on the hard shoulder. Guess who they were transporting?

frenchfighter

Rich you still don't understand so I will try ONE more time.

Cipo was World Champion which is why he has WC bands on his bike.

I don't recall Axel's paint job but if he did have one then I guess it was because he was Belgian National Champ.

Lance on the other hand won WC and US title 16 years ago. Furthermore, heis paint jobs have nothing to do with that. Maybe you should have a look at his palmares...it is ridiculously bare of top results for a supposedly top rider.

Furthermore, do you see Contador riding on the rest days in a Giro/Vuelta/Tour jersey seeing as he has won all of them? I tihnk not.

PeteinSQ

Like Cipollini, when you have Armstrong's palmares, you can ride and wear what the hell you like for all I care.

I couldn't agree more. He has won the tour more times than any other rider, he has also been world champion.

He might have doped possibly and he has in my opinion behaved badly on other occassions but until he is found guilty on any of the allegations thrown his way you can't really dispute his achievements on the bike or therefore the reasons for him getting to wear special kit.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Rich you still don't understand so I will try ONE more time.

Cipo was World Champion which is why he has WC bands on his bike.

I don't recall Axel's paint job but if he did have one then I guess it was because he was Belgian National Champ.

Lance on the other hand won WC and US title 16 years ago. Furthermore, heis paint jobs have nothing to do with that. Maybe you should have a look at his palmares...it is ridiculously bare of top results for a supposedly top rider.

Furthermore, do you see Contador riding on the rest days in a Giro/Vuelta/Tour jersey seeing as he has won all of them? I tihnk not.

I do understand what you're saying - I just think you're getting a little hung up on this 'earning stuff'.

Axel Merckx used to ride a Merckx bike on at least one of his teams.

PeteinSQ

Furthermore, do you see Contador riding on the rest days in a Giro/Vuelta/Tour jersey seeing as he has won all of them? I tihnk not.

He's promoting his charity. Something which was no doubt written into his contract when he signed it. He is bring a lot of publicity to his team. Arguably more publicity than Contador will bring even when he wins the tour.

dennisn

afx237vi wrote:

dennisn wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Why do you care? If you had people "chomping at the bit" wanting to design clothes, bikes, wheels, paint jobs, and the like for you, would you say no?

When they look like that: yes.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. And you don't pimp yourself and your bike up a bit when you go out riding?

If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis.

So you're saying you DON'T pimp yourself and your bike. Not even a little bit. Just ride in rags and on a rusty old bike. I'm betting you're out there on as flashy a bike as you can afford, with deep, possibly carbon, wheels, color coordinated tires and bar tape, carbon bars and seat post, and as high end of components as you can afford. But that's OK, you're not pimping.