Going "into the red" on hills
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Hang on - i'm not ignoring advice at all! :?
I just have very little time at the weekends to get out on club rides. I mentioned that I run a little business - it's working with musicians in recording situations and they are the most inconsistent people imaginable. My timetable is all over the place!
I've been trying to get to some club rides, but the nature of my 3 jobs, means i'm usually up until 2am and getting up early is difficult.Slow1972 wrote:And given Willhub drops you on the climbs I'm a bit surprised you are averaging over 18 mph on a 65 mile hilly circuit that starts at the bottom of the Cat and Fiddle, I smell a bit of Bhima bullsh*t again
This is why I've said many times to many people - I don't bother with average speeds anymore. They're too vague when it comes to measuring your performance. There could have been a lack of wind that day, who knows? There's no bullsh*it being spoken here. It's not all uphill, there are downhill sections which balance out the average.0 -
DaSy wrote:I think the simple answer is to formulate a varied training plan.
Trying to formulate one type of ride that will enhance all aspects and just keep doing it day in day out is impossible.
Interesting. Someone I know does weight training and says the opposite of this is true for him. (Different sport though, I guess).
I'm going to try and do that, but doing the same ride day-in-day-out seems to be more motivational for me and it'll be hard to break away from it. I'm thinking of doing a 4-day loop consisting of 2 days of easy riding, followed by a day of carnage, then a rest day.
Does anyone know if it would be more beneficial to do 2 shorter rides per day instead? 1/2 hrs of easy riding and then another hour or two in the evening at a higher pace?0 -
In the days when I used to weight train, the general way used to be a spllit routine - arms and shoulders, chest and back, legs etc. It allowed you to train those areas harder, and still train again the following day hard but not use the fatigued muscles and thus give them a break.
Kind of what I was suggesting with cycling.Complicating matters since 19650 -
Agh, feck it. I've just taken the plunge and booked Friday night off work. Hopefully that'll stop you lot bugging me.Bhima wrote:I've been trying to get to some club rides, but the nature of my 3 jobs, means i'm usually up until 2am and getting up early is difficult.
I'll do the 60-mile "mixed" ride on Saturday from the Gateway. 0 -
Very different sport.Bhima wrote:Interesting. Someone I know does weight training and says the opposite of this is true for him. (Different sport though, I guess).
that sounds too easy, 3 out of 4 days you're taking it easy. 3 hard days followed by a rest day would be better imo.Bhima wrote:I'm going to try and do that, but doing the same ride day-in-day-out seems to be more motivational for me and it'll be hard to break away from it. I'm thinking of doing a 4-day loop consisting of 2 days of easy riding, followed by a day of carnage, then a rest day.
It's about the same, but I wouldn't bother riding for only half an hour. Stick with one ride per day.Bhima wrote:Does anyone know if it would be more beneficial to do 2 shorter rides per day instead? 1/2 hrs of easy riding and then another hour or two in the evening at a higher pace?0 -
what exactly are you training for? A TT, race, sportive, hanging onto willhubs wheel?
[I couldn't manage it last week!
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a_n_t wrote:what exactly are you training for? A TT, race, sportive, hanging onto willhubs wheel?
[I couldn't manage it last week!]
I knew someone would ask this!
Which is why I said this:Bhima wrote:My aim is to get better at the hills, as they seem to be my weakest link. Not training for any particular race or anything, i'm just trying to get fitter first.
Just trying to even things out a bit recently - I can ride for ages and ages, sprint ok, do group riding, etc, you name it, even wheelies, but pacing on TTs and hills, in general could be improved. Most riding is for fun/fitness - i'll think about racing when I reckon i'm in a bit more of a competitive mood.0 -
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Bhima, what you being taking?
You reckon out to be doing 18+mph of 65 hilly miles yet if I was doing 65 hilly miles totally in the peaks I'd be hard pushed atm to do 18+mph unless I'm totally killing myself, the thing is, on the first ride to the peaks with me, you had to walk up one hill due to a cramp, the second time you got up, but you was massively slower than me, and you wont be improving/recovering that quick to do that.
And doing rides like that every day you're going to end up worse than me eventually, you'll end up loosing performance I reckon.
I think your speedo is wrong, as I know if I came on a ride with you I'd still be dropping you on the hills, I'm not trying to make myself out to be "better" than people or a "show off", there is millions of people better obviously. Just makes no sense, like you also posted earlier apparently doing a TT at like 24mph average, not so long before the ride you did with me, and I cant do a 24mph average TT yet.0 -
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If I dropped someone on a hill and that person had to walk, I don't think I'd be telling everyone about it.
If you're that much better than someone then perhaps a little modesty and sympathy is needed even if the other person might be over exaggerating/talking out of his arse. :roll: .0 -
chrisw12 wrote:If I dropped someone on a hill and that person had to walk, I don't think I'd be telling everyone about it.
If you're that much better than someone then perhaps a little modesty and sympathy is needed even if the other person might be over exaggerating/talking out of his ars*. :roll: .
Do you think it's offensive to drop someone on a hill? I'm not boasting, I was just trying to get a point across. I've being dropped on hills before, infact the other day I was plenty of times. I don't think I'm some awesome cyclists, I know what I'm capable of and I'll speak my mind, especially when I've cycled with someone more than onces and on a forum the posting does not seem to add up.
Maybe you have never heard of something called "waiting", this means that, for example, when you get to the top of a hill, or even any sort of large distance from who you are with, you stop, then you're not moving so they catch up.
Maybe that clarifies some things? :roll:0 -
chrisw12 wrote:If I dropped someone on a hill and that person had to walk, I don't think I'd be telling everyone about it.
If you're that much better than someone then perhaps a little modesty and sympathy is needed even if the other person might be over exaggerating/talking out of his ars*. :roll: .
Nah Will is just telling it like it is. Nothing wrong with that.
I think Bhima has been smoking too much pot personally.0 -
I don't smoke mate!
@ Ant - I once did a 232m skid on a fixed gear! 8) It was some competition down Princess Parkway. You got a 1 mile run-up to get as fast as possible and the longest skid wins!freehub wrote:You reckon out to be doing 18+mph of 65 hilly miles yet if I was doing 65 hilly miles totally in the peaks I'd be hard pushed atm to do 18+mph unless I'm totally killing myself,
Again, this is why I don't bother with average speeds anymore. I mentioned that to you on the last ride. For example, I went to the shops before - 1.2 miles. Average speed 22.1 on the way there, 14.9 on the way back. Obvious wind issues going on there. Power is the only measurement which tells the truth. I wish I hadn't mentioned any average speeds now because everyone I speak to gets really ar5ey about them.
freehub wrote:you had to walk up one hill due to a cramp, the second time you got up, but you was massively slower than me,
Actually, it was dehydration. God, it was hot that day, in March of all months. I know this hill keeps getting "mentioned", but jeez, it's a 23%er. :? To put the record straight - at least I got up it while still recovering from that ar5e injury!
Anyway, Will, me & you have totally different climbing styles. You (and everyone else I know) seem to be out of the saddle as soon as an incline starts, attacking it to get some momentum going, whereas I tend to spin up it seated as much as possible as I, strangely, get waaay out of breath when out of the saddle and try to conserve energy if it starts to ramp up harder. Obviously, you get more power out of the saddle, so it's inevitable i'm gonna get dropped!freehub wrote:And doing rides like that every day you're going to end up worse than me eventually, you'll end up loosing performance I reckon.
Well... Because it's the same loop every time, I'm getting better at pacing it, so there's zero chance of overdoing it, unless I start not taking days off when needed (which I'm not doing).
I guess there's no way of knowing the long-term effects though, which is one of the reasons I started this thread. It'll all have to be trial and error, but as you get fitter, you have to make the workout harder, which involves more trial and error.0 -
Bhima wrote:I don't smoke mate!
@ Ant - I once did a 232m skid on a fixed gear! 8) It was some competition down Princess Parkway. You got a 1 mile run-up to get as fast as possible and the longest skid wins!
How long have you been riding fixed for? I had a quick 5 min blast on one, and I physically couldn't lock my legs to do it, you must have some experience riding fixed?0 -
Bhima - you seem to be impervious to criticism and advice in equal measure.
A number of people here have told you that you do not seem to be living in the real world, but that doesn't seem to bother you..?0 -
Bhima wrote:I don't smoke mate!
@ Ant - I once did a 232m skid on a fixed gear! 8) It was some competition down Princess Parkway. You got a 1 mile run-up to get as fast as possible and the longest skid wins!
How long have you been riding fixed for? I had a quick 5 min blast on one, and I physically couldn't lock my legs to do it, you must have some experience riding fixed?0 -
Mate, if you're doing hard, hilly rides at 18mph average, I suggest you start at the very least riding sportives as that pace would put you up in the top 10 of the Fred Whitton. I've been racing and training for 10 years plus (with some decent results) and my long, hilly rides up here in the lakes are rarely over 17 mph. If my wednesday ride over Newlands and Whinlatter has a 16mph average, I'm happy."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
freehub wrote:chrisw12 wrote:If I dropped someone on a hill and that person had to walk, I don't think I'd be telling everyone about it.
If you're that much better than someone then perhaps a little modesty and sympathy is needed even if the other person might be over exaggerating/talking out of his ars*. :roll: .
Do you think it's offensive to drop someone on a hill? I'm not boasting, I was just trying to get a point across. I've being dropped on hills before, infact the other day I was plenty of times. I don't think I'm some awesome cyclists, I know what I'm capable of and I'll speak my mind, especially when I've cycled with someone more than onces and on a forum the posting does not seem to add up.
Maybe you have never heard of something called "waiting", this means that, for example, when you get to the top of a hill, or even any sort of large distance from who you are with, you stop, then you're not moving so they catch up.
Maybe that clarifies some things? :roll:
Well um yes I do SOMETIMES think it can be bad form to drop someone on a hill but it depends on the context of the ride and who you're riding with. <search for a thread that I started on this a while back>
I certainly think it's bad form to be mentioning it on a PUBLIC forum, but then you treat others as you expect to be treated I suppose.0 -
If you want to go faster, you have to do just that ... go faster. That means intervals and hard ones at that. If you ride the same loop everyday at an even pace you are just going to get much better at keeping that pace. Improvement is going to be very slow and you are going to get burnt out real quick. I would recommend a regimen that included flats, intervals and hills, and also make sure to add in at least one rest day each week. You get stronger by tearing down muscles and them building themselves back up, but they can't do that if you don't ever give them a chance to rest. Personally, I have been riding for a little over 2 years now and have been following a pretty balanced training schedule. From last year to this year my speed on hills has gone up by about 2-5kph depending on the day.0
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chrisw12 wrote:freehub wrote:chrisw12 wrote:If I dropped someone on a hill and that person had to walk, I don't think I'd be telling everyone about it.
If you're that much better than someone then perhaps a little modesty and sympathy is needed even if the other person might be over exaggerating/talking out of his ars*. :roll: .
Do you think it's offensive to drop someone on a hill? I'm not boasting, I was just trying to get a point across. I've being dropped on hills before, infact the other day I was plenty of times. I don't think I'm some awesome cyclists, I know what I'm capable of and I'll speak my mind, especially when I've cycled with someone more than onces and on a forum the posting does not seem to add up.
Maybe you have never heard of something called "waiting", this means that, for example, when you get to the top of a hill, or even any sort of large distance from who you are with, you stop, then you're not moving so they catch up.
Maybe that clarifies some things? :roll:
Well um yes I do SOMETIMES think it can be bad form to drop someone on a hill but it depends on the context of the ride and who you're riding with. <search for a thread that I started on this a while back>
I certainly think it's bad form to be mentioning it on a PUBLIC forum, but then you treat others as you expect to be treated I suppose.
Well I disagree and It's certainly not bad form to drop someone on the hills, even in club runs in the wheelers and Clifton CC people always get dropped on the hills, we wait at the top, it's on the flat we stick together usually.
I'm not boating about dropping someone, I was getting a point across, bhima says he averages like 18mph on a hilly ride in the peaks, that'd take some serious power up some of the hills to sustain a speed to reach 18mph average in the peaks, and I for one cannot do that, this is what I don't understand as on the ride the other week I was dropping bhima quite allot and an improvement that fast since then would be pretty massive and not realistic IMO. Unless Bananas really do have some magic ingredient that is...
If I'm on a hill and trying to keep pace with someone slower so I don't drop them, it tired me out more than going at an even pace.
Anyway I used to do rides every day, was hitting 1200 miles a month at one point, I was able to quickly recovery, by the time I got to September I found my performance decreasing, I never even thought it could be overstraining, but it was, I finally realized when my knee problem got bad I took 2 weeks off from doing any rides on my main bike, when I came to do another ride, I was amazed, 37 mile loop I managed 20mph average better than my previous for that route of 18.5 on a similar day.
What I do now is do a long ride at the weekend, this weekend will be around 117miles very hilly, then I'll rest the next day, the day after that I'll consider another ride, last week I did 101 miles very hilly, 8000ft+ of climbing, I rested on the Monday, Tuesday I went and did 73 miles very hilly, I found as with another ride a couple weeks ago, my performance was slower, probably due to me not recovering fully, so from tuesday I take wednesday, thursday off, I'll probably go for a steady 25 or so miles today, but it's really windy so around 10, then I should be fully recovered for the 117 super hilly tomorrow. I've learnt that recovery is very important, I just ignored it before, but I also find I do recovery slower than I did last year, weirdly enough.0 -
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Bhima wrote:I don't smoke mate!
@ Ant - I once did a 232m skid on a fixed gear! 8) It was some competition down Princess Parkway. You got a 1 mile run-up to get as fast as possible and the longest skid wins!freehub wrote:You reckon out to be doing 18+mph of 65 hilly miles yet if I was doing 65 hilly miles totally in the peaks I'd be hard pushed atm to do 18+mph unless I'm totally killing myself,
Again, this is why I don't bother with average speeds anymore. I mentioned that to you on the last ride. For example, I went to the shops before - 1.2 miles. Average speed 22.1 on the way there, 14.9 on the way back. Obvious wind issues going on there. Power is the only measurement which tells the truth. I wish I hadn't mentioned any average speeds now because everyone I speak to gets really ar5ey about them.freehub wrote:you had to walk up one hill due to a cramp, the second time you got up, but you was massively slower than me,
Actually, it was dehydration. God, it was hot that day, in March of all months. I know this hill keeps getting "mentioned", but jeez, it's a 23%er. :? To put the record straight - at least I got up it while still recovering from that ar5e injury!
Anyway, Will, me & you have totally different climbing styles. You (and everyone else I know) seem to be out of the saddle as soon as an incline starts, attacking it to get some momentum going, whereas I tend to spin up it seated as much as possible as I, strangely, get waaay out of breath when out of the saddle and try to conserve energy if it starts to ramp up harder. Obviously, you get more power out of the saddle, so it's inevitable i'm gonna get dropped!freehub wrote:And doing rides like that every day you're going to end up worse than me eventually, you'll end up loosing performance I reckon.
Well... Because it's the same loop every time, I'm getting better at pacing it, so there's zero chance of overdoing it, unless I start not taking days off when needed (which I'm not doing).
I guess there's no way of knowing the long-term effects though, which is one of the reasons I started this thread. It'll all have to be trial and error, but as you get fitter, you have to make the workout harder, which involves more trial and error.
Bhima, I'm not trying to say you're **** or anything and I'm not trying to wind you up, just the results you post don't add up from what I've seen. call it "fake" or w/e I don't know. and some of the stuff you do you'd think you'd be an athlete by now.
Take more recovery you might thank yourself though, I know I do when it comes to club runs!0 -
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Ouch.
Kind of agree though. I'd say just post less on here. You know what they say about being in a hole...and continuing to dig.
The best advice I got from this forum was to join a club. Get yourself on some rides with people who've been riding or racing for years, and do some proper rides, then see how you get on.0 -
redddraggon wrote:Bhima should get himself on some chaingangs or proper hilly club runs, and see if can reproduce these fantasy results when real people are around.
Probably will be slightly faster than he is on his own, even when he's not behind someone, I know when I'm on a club run I'm faster up hills.0 -
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In all honestly, I'm only sticking up for the guy because his posts are so entertaining.
Come on who hasn't laughed at the banana thread. I still chuckle to myself about him using e=mc^2 to worl out power
So please Bhima keep on posting. In fact please join a club and start racing so you can give us some more entertaining stories.
Perhaps you could have your own sub-forum0
