Silly commuting racing

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  • linsen
    linsen Posts: 1,959
    Yes. With my bare hands.
    Emerging from under a big black cloud. All help welcome
  • m0scs
    m0scs Posts: 196
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Quick question on monitoring one's breathing/HR, how does a breathing monitor work, and can you get HRMs that aren't a chest band?

    Or do you have to do the chest band up tightly?

    Hi Lit

    You can get a non strapped heart rate monitor but its only really a pulse monitor and requires you put your fingers on 2 electrodes on the watch face. Not to be recommended when your riding along, and completely useless for cycling purposes.

    HRM's all have a strap but as others have said they are not uncomfortable and soon forgotten about.

    I recently bought a Polar CS400 cycling specific HRM that gives masses of useful./useless information about your ride and drawers pretty graphs of your performance or lack of.

    Being a bit of a gadget nerd, I love it :)
    Specialised Epic MTB on slicks.
    SPD clipless pedals: FCN 7
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Ok, so I made the point of riding my 39 all the way home. Wasn't as bad as I thought and felt like more of a cardio-vascular workout as oppose to a muscle-building-mass workout that I find with my biggest ring. Held 17mph more consistently though often spinning out and not nearly as tired as I've been on previous commutes from work.

    I stand corrected.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    m0scs wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Quick question on monitoring one's breathing/HR, how does a breathing monitor work, and can you get HRMs that aren't a chest band?

    Or do you have to do the chest band up tightly?

    Hi Lit

    You can get a non strapped heart rate monitor but its only really a pulse monitor and requires you put your fingers on 2 electrodes on the watch face. Not to be recommended when your riding along, and completely useless for cycling purposes.

    HRM's all have a strap but as others have said they are not uncomfortable and soon forgotten about.

    I recently bought a Polar CS400 cycling specific HRM that gives masses of useful./useless information about your ride and drawers pretty graphs of your performance or lack of.

    Being a bit of a gadget nerd, I love it :)

    On a cheaper budget I bought a Lidl wireless computer with HRM for £21 and a HRM watch for £6 both work perfectly even though last time we all met @ the Morpeth Arms I mentioned my resting HR being about 90bpm therefore assumed the watch was broken, nope that it seems is about right.

    No fancy graphs but a good intro
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    itboffin wrote:
    m0scs wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Quick question on monitoring one's breathing/HR, how does a breathing monitor work, and can you get HRMs that aren't a chest band?

    Or do you have to do the chest band up tightly?

    Hi Lit

    You can get a non strapped heart rate monitor but its only really a pulse monitor and requires you put your fingers on 2 electrodes on the watch face. Not to be recommended when your riding along, and completely useless for cycling purposes.

    HRM's all have a strap but as others have said they are not uncomfortable and soon forgotten about.

    I recently bought a Polar CS400 cycling specific HRM that gives masses of useful./useless information about your ride and drawers pretty graphs of your performance or lack of.

    Being a bit of a gadget nerd, I love it :)

    On a cheaper budget I bought a Lidl wireless computer with HRM for £21 and a HRM watch for £6 both work perfectly even though last time we all met @ the Morpeth Arms I mentioned my resting HR being about 90bpm therefore assumed the watch was broken, nope that it seems is about right.

    No fancy graphs but a good intro

    Why do people use HRMs? Interest, gadget-freak or for genuine training purposes? What does the HRM tell you that "perceived effort" doesn't?
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    I've only used the HRM function once whilst on the turbo trainer, during a ride I have no need I'm only to aware of my HR by the taste in my mouth :?
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Jen J
    Jen J Posts: 1,054
    I know a lot of runners that swear by HR training. Whe I started training again in June after a few months lazing around, I wore a HRM and it made me slow my pace down so that I could run longer. It was also motivating to see my fitness come back so quickly.

    But I found that as I was wearing it for long runs of 6-8 hours, it really started to chafe and so I stopped wearing it.

    With HR training, the idea is that most of your runs are at 70% or WHR, this should reduce the risk of injury and allow you to build mileage quickly and safely. I don't see why the benefits wouldn't be the same for biking.
    Commuting: Giant Bowery 08
    Winter Hack: Triandrun Vento 3
    Madone

    It's all about me...
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Jen J wrote:
    With HR training, the idea is that most of your runs are at 70% or WHR, this should reduce the risk of injury and allow you to build mileage quickly and safely. I don't see why the benefits wouldn't be the same for biking.

    True - I knew that if I ran at between 150-160 BPM, it was good, but, over time, why should you not be able to assess your pace without the benefit of statistics? Does anyone use them to analyse whether they're coming down with a cold and whether they see a drop in peformance 'x' no. of days before the lurgi/cold hits?
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • Jen J
    Jen J Posts: 1,054
    cjcp wrote:
    True - I knew that if I ran at between 150-160 BPM, it was good, but, over time, why should you not be able to assess your pace without the benefit of statistics? Does anyone use them to analyse whether they're coming down with a cold and whether they see a drop in peformance 'x' no. of days before the lurgi/cold hits?

    Personally I agree with you - partly why I lost interest in it once the novelty of seeing my pace increase as my HR decreased wore off.

    I reckon it's because as runners we don't have a lot of excuses to buy stuff, unlike with bikes where the possibilities are endless, so we just buy all the gadgets that are available ;)
    Commuting: Giant Bowery 08
    Winter Hack: Triandrun Vento 3
    Madone

    It's all about me...
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    cjcp wrote:
    Jen J wrote:
    With HR training, the idea is that most of your runs are at 70% or WHR, this should reduce the risk of injury and allow you to build mileage quickly and safely. I don't see why the benefits wouldn't be the same for biking.

    True - I knew that if I ran at between 150-160 BPM, it was good, but, over time, why should you not be able to assess your pace without the benefit of statistics? Does anyone use them to analyse whether they're coming down with a cold and whether they see a drop in peformance 'x' no. of days before the lurgi/cold hits?
    I wear one but don't really look at it that much (especially during the commute). Looking at the data after a ride I find it can tell me (when PE and speed don't) that I'm fatigued/lurgied: top end HR goes down (on average) by about 5-10 beats... but I don't think I'd be able to predict oncoming illness from it, only in hindsight.
    I don't bother monitoring just woken up resting HR, which is anecdotally supposed to show illness/fatigue if higher than normal

    Based on the above i probably need an easy week about now :wink:
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • m0scs
    m0scs Posts: 196
    Interesting comments from people on the subject of HRM's.

    Agreed, if you ride to work, your purpose is to get there, not necessarily how fast you went, average heart rate, calorie count etc.

    People cycle for a variety of reasons, including keeping fit, weight loss, hunting down the nearest higher ranking FCN etc.
    :wink:

    Surely it must be useful info to know that you burnt 200 calories chasing down the girl in pink lycra on a Brompton for the last mile.

    I mainly ride for exercise and I like to know how I have performed, compared to previously and I find this to be a motivator. (Not as much as chasing the gilrl in the pink lycra, of course!)

    In training for longer endurance events it is helpful to know how much stress you are putting your body under, when to push yourself and when to ease off.

    Granted, the pain in your chest and legs should be telling you this to a degree but I think that HRM have a role to play.

    Having read the above, I feel that maybe I need to join the Road/Training forum.

    I'll get my coat......... and my HRM of course :lol:

    If anyone knows a girl who wears pink lycra on her bike, let me know.
    Specialised Epic MTB on slicks.
    SPD clipless pedals: FCN 7
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    m0scs wrote:
    In training for longer endurance events it is helpful to know how much stress you are putting your body under, when to push yourself and when to ease off.

    Granted, the pain in your chest and legs should be telling you this to a degree but I think that HRM have a role to play.

    This is one of the issues which got me thinking about the subject.

    I used my HRM as a rough calorie count for the commute in order to justify to myself in cold, hard statistics that I could eat like a wizard when I arrived home.

    For the record, I agree that they can be useful, but I just wondered why people used them. I have a simple Timex model which I use to monitor my time and HR per lap as a gauge of my fitness/form. And because I'm a complete cretin when it comes to gadgets.

    However, for things like sportives (rather than the training for it), you sort of automatically hold back a little* because you don't want to bonk or are more concerned with sticking with a group and you know deep down that "oh my, this is a bit fast. I can't hold this", and so pay less attention to HRM perhaps.


    *I do, until I pass 10 miles and decide that I'm clearly in the form of my life and it's no guts, no glory. Until 80 miles. When everything goes badly wrong.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • Jay dubbleU
    Jay dubbleU Posts: 3,159
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Ok, so I made the point of riding my 39 all the way home. Wasn't as bad as I thought and felt like more of a cardio-vascular workout as oppose to a muscle-building-mass workout that I find with my biggest ring. Held 17mph more consistently though often spinning out and not nearly as tired as I've been on previous commutes from work.

    I stand corrected.

    I started out on the 48 but now I'm getting used to the bike I find the 38 more responsive and flexible - maybe when I'm fitter I'll start pushing more
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    TBH, on the HRM side, I'm just interested to see what mine is/does when I ride at what I feel to be a relaxed pace, and when I put the hammer down.

    Also, when I used to swim, we used to monitor very carefully how long it took your heart rate to return to an 'endurance' level from a 'sprint' level and from an 'endurance' level to a 'resting' level. This was (sadistically) tested on us on a weekly basis for about 3 hours, with the recovery rate monitored, and considered an indicator of fitness.

    However, that was nearly 10 years ago and may now be a load of tripe. I'm still interested! :D
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    edited October 2008
    On topic, cr@p commute this morning, nobody about at all.

    Last night, however, managed a great scalp...

    Plodding along, relaxed pace, and spy a roadie up ahead... he's on a red bike... sorry, it was dark. He also had a ponytail and no luggage and plastic-y looking clipless shoes. Definitely above me in the FC, especially as I had 2 panniers.

    So I up the pace, wait until open road and overtake him up a short steep hill, seated. I hear a manic clickety-clacking from behind me as he tries to keep up, but my cadence is high enough that I'm accelerating uphill, and nearly at the top. +1

    He pulls up next to me at the first red light, on the top of the next hill, a stretch of road ahead that I know is slightly downhill. I let him go. And wait.

    Tick followed tock followed tick followed tock...

    And then fly past him like he's stopped.

    Does that hurt, roadie? Just a little? A sudden darkening in your soul? That's a nasty bruise on your ego....

    I hope he noticed that I only had one gear...

    :twisted: :twisted:
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Powermeters are the way forward. An HRM tells you how hard your heart is working; a PM tells you what you're producing. It's a more reliable measure of how hard you're working, how close you are to your ceiling, and (depending on what measurements you have on your head unit) how efficiently you're riding.

    And yes, it will tell you if you're coming down with a bug.

    Slight problem: they're not cheap. And the paradigm would be a combination of the best of each of them. None of them are perfect.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • Jen J
    Jen J Posts: 1,054
    Greg66 wrote:
    Slight problem: they're not cheap. And the paradigm would be a combination of the best of each of them. None of them are perfect.


    Not cheap? They're more expensive than my bikes. Combined :(
    Commuting: Giant Bowery 08
    Winter Hack: Triandrun Vento 3
    Madone

    It's all about me...
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Jen J wrote:
    Greg66 wrote:
    Slight problem: they're not cheap. And the paradigm would be a combination of the best of each of them. None of them are perfect.


    Not cheap? They're more expensive than my bikes. Combined :(

    Quarq.us maintains that the Edge 705 can be combined with their CinQo sensor to measure power...

    However they can't spell gauge so maybe they are not to be trusted.

    http://www.quarq.us/

    The Edge 750 seems like a pretty smart piece of kit.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    lost_in_thought wrote:

    Quarq.us maintains that the Edge 705 can be combined with their CinQo sensor to measure power...

    However they can't spell gauge so maybe they are not to be trusted.

    http://www.quarq.us/

    The Edge 705 seems like a pretty smart piece of kit.

    It does. But it doesn't provide normalised power nor (I think) average power on the fly, which are pretty much top of my wish list.

    The CinQo hasn't got a CE mark yet, so Quarq aren't shipping it to Europe. Nor can you order it from their US site without a US registered credit card. And there's the moderate problem of having to swap your existing cranks. Even so, Quarq's where my money's going next once they sort their sh!t out.

    Powermeters. I can bore for England on that one.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    I want me a PowerTap SL+ when they come out. Also links up to the 705 via the Ant+Sport protocol. Just need to find a grand from somewhere...
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    I hope he noticed that I only had one gear...

    :twisted: :twisted:

    :D:D:D Next time, to be certain, point to it flamboyantly as you pass!
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • Jen J
    Jen J Posts: 1,054
    JonGinge wrote:
    I want me a PowerTap SL+ when they come out. Also links up to the 705 via the Ant+Sport protocol. Just need to find a grand from somewhere...

    I think they're a nice idea in theory, but I don't get how they are worth that much in terms of perceived value. Ok, so they tell you how much power you're producing, but surely your speed/cadence or whatever can give you a guide to how you're doing.

    If I had a spare grand I'd get a new bike...
    Commuting: Giant Bowery 08
    Winter Hack: Triandrun Vento 3
    Madone

    It's all about me...
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Fcuk me it was blowy last night ... I headed up to Willesden Green and had the cross wind all the way. I hate crosswinds especially with the slightly deep rims on the Pearson, I was getting blown all over the shop. Hardly any folk out this morning, although I really enjoyed toying with a fully hybrided up bloke in a funny skaters helmet. He tried to give me a lance style "look" then went for it, legs spinning like mad. I let hem think he was pulling a way for a minute or so then took him, sitting up and adjusting my iPod. He didn't look happy! Serves him right for fcuking with a roadie. :twisted:


    :lol:
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Jen J wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    I want me a PowerTap SL+ when they come out. Also links up to the 705 via the Ant+Sport protocol. Just need to find a grand from somewhere...

    I think they're a nice idea in theory, but I don't get how they are worth that much in terms of perceived value. Ok, so they tell you how much power you're producing, but surely your speed/cadence or whatever can give you a guide to how you're doing.

    If I had a spare grand I'd get a new bike...
    I know, I know. I currently do isopower intervals using cadence but still want one ;)
    I'm kinda interested in my absolute power and W/kg values to compare with others.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • Bassjunkieuk
    Bassjunkieuk Posts: 4,232
    jashburnham wrote:
    Fcuk me it was blowy last night ... I headed up to Willesden Green and had the cross wind all the way. I hate crosswinds especially with the slightly deep rims on the Pearson, I was getting blown all over the shop. Hardly any folk out this morning, although I really enjoyed toying with a fully hybrided up bloke in a funny skaters helmet. He tried to give me a lance style "look" then went for it, legs spinning like mad. I let hem think he was pulling a way for a minute or so then took him, sitting up and adjusting my iPod. He didn't look happy! Serves him right for fcuking with a roadie. :twisted:


    :lol:

    MASTER CLASS IN SCALPING :-D
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  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Not sure it counts as a scalp. He was labouring under the sincerely held belief that he was fast, he wasn't, at all.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    jashburnham wrote:
    Fcuk me it was blowy last night ... I headed up to Willesden Green and had the cross wind all the way. I hate crosswinds especially with the slightly deep rims on the Pearson, I was getting blown all over the shop. Hardly any folk out this morning, although I really enjoyed toying with a fully hybrided up bloke in a funny skaters helmet. He tried to give me a lance style "look" then went for it, legs spinning like mad. I let hem think he was pulling a way for a minute or so then took him, sitting up and adjusting my iPod. He didn't look happy! Serves him right for fcuking with a roadie. :twisted:


    :lol:
    Excellent. I had something similar yesterday on the way in. Pulling away from lights on embankment I got boxed by a slow-ish hi-viz hybrid up front and a hybrid to the side. As we sped up the guy to the side looked to be suffering a bit and looked nervously across. I gave him a half-smile, dropped back a bit and went around them at warp factor 10. Well, I thought it was funny
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • Jen J
    Jen J Posts: 1,054
    jashburnham wrote:
    I let hem think he was pulling a way for a minute or so then took him, sitting up and adjusting my iPod.

    iPod? :shock:
    Commuting: Giant Bowery 08
    Winter Hack: Triandrun Vento 3
    Madone

    It's all about me...
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Greg66 wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    I hope he noticed that I only had one gear...

    :twisted: :twisted:

    :D:D:D Next time, to be certain, point to it flamboyantly as you pass!

    I may well...

    [shout]

    MTFU!

    I HAVE ONE GEAR! ONE!

    DOES EMASCULATION CAUSE PHYSICAL PAIN OR ONLY PSYCHOLOGICAL?!

    [/shout]

    :D:D
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Jen J wrote:
    jashburnham wrote:
    I let hem think he was pulling a way for a minute or so then took him, sitting up and adjusting my iPod.

    iPod? :shock:

    Yep, commute with either a shuffle or my iphone. Let's not open this debate. I've been doing it for as long as iPods have existed and can hear traffic just fine. It's never caused any problems and if I thought it put me or others in danger I wouldn't do it!

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