Silly commuting racing

cjcp

DonDaddyD wrote:

CJCP,

My preference: When going up hills I prefer to push the bigger ring as oppose to spinning a smaller ring. In fact it is uncomfortable (always has been) turning the smaller ring really really quickly (maybe I don't have great fast twitch muscles). I enjoy putting power down on the big ring. As I'm riding more getting stronger and fitter I'm finding this is the case more often than not.

My journey now and for the forseeable future doesn't include many, if any, hills that would be steep enough for me to go down to a ring smaller than my 39t.

Okey doke. Spinning also requires the lungs to work harder. Fwiw, I use a 53/39 with 12/25. I am average joe.

You looking at a 27 sprocket?

I am neither a spinner nor a grinder, but I'm problem closer to spinner on that particular spectrum. On the commute though, I'm forced to be a grinder - in Richmomd Park - as I have no front mech.

Re the posts about spinning and technique, riding like I'm being chased by a crazy mob has done wonders for my speed.

Wrath Rob

DonDaddyD wrote:

I prefer to push the bigger ring

I enjoy putting power down on the big ring.

Push rather than spin that's my preference.

Please stop it, my double-entendre-o-meter has spun off of the scale

DonDaddyD

cjcp wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

CJCP,

My preference: When going up hills I prefer to push the bigger ring as oppose to spinning a smaller ring. In fact it is uncomfortable (always has been) turning the smaller ring really really quickly (maybe I don't have great fast twitch muscles). I enjoy putting power down on the big ring. As I'm riding more getting stronger and fitter I'm finding this is the case more often than not.

My journey now and for the forseeable future doesn't include many, if any, hills that would be steep enough for me to go down to a ring smaller than my 39t.

Okey doke. Spinning also requires the lungs to work harder. Fwiw, I use a 53/39 with 12/25. I am average joe.

You looking at a 27 sprocket?

I am neither a spinner nor a grinder, but I'm problem closer to spinner on that particular spectrum. On the commute though, I'm forced to be a grinder - in Richmomd Park - as I have no front mech.

Re the posts about spinning and technique, riding like I'm being chased by a crazy mob has done wonders for my speed.

Ok, this is where I probably piss everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

lost_in_thought

Bock off-topic - I recall good response for beers this friday on the poll - any takers?

BTW if you come on a nice road bike you have to let me try it out. :P

Jen J

DonDaddyD wrote:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

Must admit that since I discovered how to move onto the big ring, I much prefer using that, and now the only time I change to the small ring is on the 'hills' in RP.

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

Bock off-topic - I recall good response for beers this friday on the poll - any takers?

BTW if you come on a nice road bike you have to let me try it out. :P

Do you have SPD SL's?

Can I try you SS/FG Bowery?

(Though I mostly likely cannot make tomorrow...sigh....have plans with friends back from cruises.

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Bock off-topic - I recall good response for beers this friday on the poll - any takers?

BTW if you come on a nice road bike you have to let me try it out. :P

Do you have SPD SL's?

Can I try you SS/FG Bowery?

(Though I mostly likely cannot make tomorrow...sigh....have plans with friends back from cruises.

SPDs, not SLs. Of course you can.

cjcp

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ok, this is where I probably wee-wee everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

:twisted:

I supposed a standard block is 12/25. If you're using a 53/39, a 27 gives you that extra get-out if you're not particularly fond of hills to start with or your body's having a bit of a shocker for some reason and you need to get up a hill. It's why I have a 25. You won't need a 27 around these parts though.

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ok, this is where I probably wee-wee everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

I suspect we need some context here. DDD: spinning = what rpm? And grinding = what rpm? When you're on the big ring at the front, which sprocket do you spend most time on on the back? And how long is a longer ride? An hour? Two? Three? More?

Physiologies differ (big surprise there). Ulrich was a happy masher, and had it not been for Armstrong being around the same age, Ulrich would have won the Tour multiple times.

What Ulrich vs Armstrong showed was that if you push a big gear uphill, you'll find it a lot harder to accelerate than the guy next to you driving the same speed on a small gear. Stands to reason - try putting your foot down in a car going uphill in fifth gear vs second and see what happens.

Now I find I'd rather ride at 90+ rpm for three hours than c70-75 rpm. If I try the latter, my legs will be a lot more tired in the third hour, and the whole thing goes to sh!t. It's like this: what will leave you fresher? 5 X 1000kg squats or 50 x 100kg squats or 500 x 10kg squats?

What I will say though is this: if you're riding uphill on the 39 and feeling like you're not working, then either (a) the hill's too short or (b) the hill's too shallow or (c) you're one strong SOB. There's a hill I ride on holiday which is 1 hour 5 to the top. There are no flat sections. My breathing and HR is constantly deep into the red (it goes from flat to 15% in the first 100m). Riding 39 feels like kicking down brick walls. 34 would be nice.

Now if you're not planning to ride hills, who cares about the small ring. Stick to 39. You'll never use it anyway. You'll spend all your time on the 50. All you need to do then is slot down to the next smallest sprocket on the back. Somewhere I read something to the effect that a 50 plus an 11-23 gives you a bigger range of gears than a 53 plus a 12-25 (something like that, anyway). Taller at the 11/12 end and shorter at the 23/25 end. The payoff is that the gaps between the gears are longer (think car gear ratios which are more spread out). Unless you're racing crits, that's probably not a big deal.

So before you write off a 50/34 in favour of a 53/39, wander over to sheldon brown and have a play with his gearing calculator to compare the two.

greg66_tri_v2.0

lost_in_thought wrote:

Bock off-topic - I recall good response for beers this friday on the poll - any takers?

BTW if you come on a nice road bike you have to let me try it out. :P

Yep and yep.

il_principe

Or just MTFU and get a SS/FG. If you're sticking to London then that's all you need.

Go on, you know you want to!

Coriander

lost_in_thought wrote:

Back off-topic - I recall good response for beers this friday on the poll - any takers?

Would love to come but will be in Cape Town drinking wine, taking the sun and just generally being a lazyarse. For the next two and a half weeks.

DonDaddyD

cjcp wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ok, this is where I probably wee-wee everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

:twisted:

I supposed a standard block is 12/25. If you're using a 53/39, a 27 gives you that extra get-out if you're not particularly fond of hills to start with or your body's having a bit of a shocker for some reason and you need to get up a hill. It's why I have a 25. You won't need a 27 around these parts though.

Apparantly my Giant SCR 3 is a 52/39/30 with a 12/26. Although I'm not the most seasoned in understanding what all that means together.

I like my back cassette the three centre sprokets see the most work on hills, cruising and high speeds. I also like my 52 ring. At times I could do with something smaller than a 52 but bigger than my 39. The jump between the two is too big and I find that whenever I move onto the 39 I find that I'm moving further down to the the far end of the cassette - which isn't good for the bike.

Maybe this is all because my bike is actually an 8speed back casette and a 50/34 with a 9 speed cassette has gears I've yet to encounter and could easily accomodate my weird demands as a cyclist.

Like Jash and othes have said I think I need to try a mammoth hill to really gauge the benefits of the smaller rings gears. I could technically ride my commute on a single speed so I alll but know I'm wrong.

Citizen Smith

lost_in_thought wrote:

Bock off-topic - I recall good response for beers this friday on the poll - any takers?

No can do this week as I'm off up to the Wirral this weekend to visit my folks.

Jay dubbleU

My Giant Escape runs a 28/38/48 ring wiith an eight speed rear cassette - I find I tend to use the middle and big ring but the small on is too small - hopefully it will be of use when I hit the forest trails in Scotland

DonDaddyD

Greg66 wrote:

What I will say though is this: if you're riding uphill on the 39 and feeling like you're not working, then either (a) the hill's too short or (b) the hill's too shallow or (c) you're one strong SOB.

My thighs are like the rocks that hold up mountains! There is power down there that could start a new religion.

Some say that the power contained in my legs caused the big bang, started evolution and will bring forth the Apocalypse.

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ok, this is where I probably wee-wee everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

I suspect we need some context here. DDD: spinning = what rpm? And grinding = what rpm? When you're on the big ring at the front, which sprocket do you spend most time on on the back? And how long is a longer ride? An hour? Two? Three? More?

Physiologies differ (big surprise there). Ulrich was a happy masher, and had it not been for Armstrong being around the same age, Ulrich would have won the Tour multiple times.

What Ulrich vs Armstrong showed was that if you push a big gear uphill, you'll find it a lot harder to accelerate than the guy next to you driving the same speed on a small gear. Stands to reason - try putting your foot down in a car going uphill in fifth gear vs second and see what happens.

Now I find I'd rather ride at 90+ rpm for three hours than c70-75 rpm. If I try the latter, my legs will be a lot more tired in the third hour, and the whole thing goes to sh!t. It's like this: what will leave you fresher? 5 X 1000kg squats or 50 x 100kg squats or 500 x 10kg squats?

What I will say though is this: if you're riding uphill on the 39 and feeling like you're not working, then either (a) the hill's too short or (b) the hill's too shallow or (c) you're one strong SOB. There's a hill I ride on holiday which is 1 hour 5 to the top. There are no flat sections. My breathing and HR is constantly deep into the red (it goes from flat to 15% in the first 100m). Riding 39 feels like kicking down brick walls. 34 would be nice.

Now if you're not planning to ride hills, who cares about the small ring. Stick to 39. You'll never use it anyway. You'll spend all your time on the 50. All you need to do then is slot down to the next smallest sprocket on the back. Somewhere I read something to the effect that a 50 plus an 11-23 gives you a bigger range of gears than a 53 plus a 12-25 (something like that, anyway). Taller at the 11/12 end and shorter at the 23/25 end. The payoff is that the gaps between the gears are longer (think car gear ratios which are more spread out). Unless you're racing crits, that's probably not a big deal.

So before you write off a 50/34 in favour of a 53/39, wander over to sheldon brown and have a play with his gearing calculator to compare the two.

Seriously, thanks for the post/advice I think I will consider a 50/34.

My Giant Escape runs a 28/38/48 ring wiith an eight speed rear cassette - I find I tend to use the middle and big ring but the small on is too small - hopefully it will be of use when I hit the forest trails in Scotland

I hated anything but the big 48 ring on my Escape M2. I hated any hill I encountered with that bike.

Bassjunkieuk

DDD, you might wanna check what your running on your SCR as Dever has the SCR 3.0 2008 specced as such:

GIANT SCR 3.0 2008
GIANT SCR 3.0 2008 FRAME ALUXX aluminium, Fluid Formed, Compact Road Design FORK T700 carbon composite, aluminium steerer SHOCK N/A HANDLEBAR GIANT A3 aluminium STEM GIANT A3 aluminium ahead SEAT POST GIANT A5 aluminium SADDLE Selle Royal Viper PEDALS Wellgo road SHIFTERS Shimano Sora 24 speed STI FRONT MECH Shimano Sora REAR MECH Shimano Tiagra BRAKES Dual pivot long reach BRAKE LEVER Shimano Sora STI CASSETTE SRAM PG850 12-26 CHAIN Shimano HG73 CRANKS TruVativ Touro 3.2 30/39/50 BOTTOM BRACKET Cartridge RIMS Alex DA22 HUBS Formula SPOKES Stainless steel TYRES Kenda 700x26mm

So you have a 50/39/30 chainset and 12-26 at the rear. As G66 suggested (I think it was him) head over to here:

http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

And pop your chainset and cassette sizes in (you might need to look on google to get the intermediate gears on your cassette, that's how I did it for my 07 model) and it can show you the GI and speeds at various RPM's you can achieve. It's quite useful as it lets you see how your gear ratios work out.

Jen J

I'm really enjoying all this gearing talk. As a neophyte who has struggled to get my head around the simple physics of gearing, and is fascinated yet horrified by them (hence the Bowery) it is actually helping my head to make sense of it all.

You're being quite educational, boys

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

cjcp wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ok, this is where I probably wee-wee everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

:twisted:

I supposed a standard block is 12/25. If you're using a 53/39, a 27 gives you that extra get-out if you're not particularly fond of hills to start with or your body's having a bit of a shocker for some reason and you need to get up a hill. It's why I have a 25. You won't need a 27 around these parts though.

Apparantly my Giant SCR 3 is a 52/39/30 with a 12/26. Although I'm not the most seasoned in understanding what all that means together.

I like my back cassette the three centre sprokets see the most work on hills, cruising and high speeds. I also like my 52 ring. At times I could do with something smaller than a 52 but bigger than my 39. The jump between the two is too big and I find that whenever I move onto the 39 I find that I'm moving further down to the the far end of the cassette - which isn't good for the bike.

Maybe this is all because my bike is actually an 8speed back casette and a 50/34 with a 9 speed cassette has gears I've yet to encounter and could easily accomodate my weird demands as a cyclist.

Like Jash and othes have said I think I need to try a mammoth hill to really gauge the benefits of the smaller rings gears. I could technically ride my commute on a single speed so I alll but know I'm wrong.

You could try fitting an 11T to the back maybe. Remember as well that if you get a new bike it'll most likely be 10 speed at the back so you're getting more gears right away.

Kieran_Burns

Oddly I have 48/34 with 11-32 and I don't think I have EVER used the small ring

itboffin

Wrath Rob wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I prefer to push the bigger ring

I enjoy putting power down on the big ring.

Push rather than spin that's my preference.

Please stop it, my double-entendre-o-meter has spun off of the scale

Phew I'm glad someone else is paying attention

cjcp

DonDaddyD wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

What I will say though is this: if you're riding uphill on the 39 and feeling like you're not working, then either (a) the hill's too short or (b) the hill's too shallow or (c) you're one strong SOB.

My thighs are like the rocks that hold up mountains! There is power down there that could start a new religion.

Some say that the power contained in my legs caused the big bang, started evolution and will bring forth the Apocalypse.

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ok, this is where I probably wee-wee everyone off:

I infact don't mind spinning the big ring relatively quickly. I just don't like the feel of spinning the small ring. I have no problems griding or spinning the big ring to get to my desired speed. Once there I don't mind spinning that same gear, or going up or down one and maintaining the cadence for as long as I can. I just like the feel of resistance I get from the big ring, always have. I hate the ease of the 39 feels like I'm doing nothing.

Flame me if you must.

I do accept that on a longer rides what I just said may not be the case.

I have no idea what sproket I'm looking for.

I suspect we need some context here. DDD: spinning = what rpm? And grinding = what rpm? When you're on the big ring at the front, which sprocket do you spend most time on on the back? And how long is a longer ride? An hour? Two? Three? More?

Physiologies differ (big surprise there). Ulrich was a happy masher, and had it not been for Armstrong being around the same age, Ulrich would have won the Tour multiple times.

What Ulrich vs Armstrong showed was that if you push a big gear uphill, you'll find it a lot harder to accelerate than the guy next to you driving the same speed on a small gear. Stands to reason - try putting your foot down in a car going uphill in fifth gear vs second and see what happens.

Now I find I'd rather ride at 90+ rpm for three hours than c70-75 rpm. If I try the latter, my legs will be a lot more tired in the third hour, and the whole thing goes to sh!t. It's like this: what will leave you fresher? 5 X 1000kg squats or 50 x 100kg squats or 500 x 10kg squats?

What I will say though is this: if you're riding uphill on the 39 and feeling like you're not working, then either (a) the hill's too short or (b) the hill's too shallow or (c) you're one strong SOB. There's a hill I ride on holiday which is 1 hour 5 to the top. There are no flat sections. My breathing and HR is constantly deep into the red (it goes from flat to 15% in the first 100m). Riding 39 feels like kicking down brick walls. 34 would be nice.

Now if you're not planning to ride hills, who cares about the small ring. Stick to 39. You'll never use it anyway. You'll spend all your time on the 50. All you need to do then is slot down to the next smallest sprocket on the back. Somewhere I read something to the effect that a 50 plus an 11-23 gives you a bigger range of gears than a 53 plus a 12-25 (something like that, anyway). Taller at the 11/12 end and shorter at the 23/25 end. The payoff is that the gaps between the gears are longer (think car gear ratios which are more spread out). Unless you're racing crits, that's probably not a big deal.

So before you write off a 50/34 in favour of a 53/39, wander over to sheldon brown and have a play with his gearing calculator to compare the two.

Seriously, thanks for the post/advice I think I will consider a 50/34.

There is also another issue, but this will apply to longer climbs and the shorter, steeper stuff: no matter how big your thighs (sounds like one of yours is two of mine :shock: ), ride/grind in too hard a gear and you risk putting your knees in trouble.

greg66_tri_v2.0

cjcp wrote:

There is also another issue, but this will apply to longer climbs and the shorter, steeper stuff: no matter how big your thighs (sounds like one of yours is two of mine :shock: ), ride/grind in too hard a gear and you risk putting your knees in trouble.

<sigh>

It's been said before, but it's worth saying again (see where this is going yet?)

M.

T.

F.

U.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

cjcp

Greg66 wrote:

cjcp wrote:

There is also another issue, but this will apply to longer climbs and the shorter, steeper stuff: no matter how big your thighs (sounds like one of yours is two of mine :shock: ), ride/grind in too hard a gear and you risk putting your knees in trouble.

<sigh>

It's been said before, but it's worth saying again (see where this is going yet?)

M.

T.

F.

U.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Says the "man" who's breathing apparently remains in the red when the road starts to go up. :twisted:

lost_in_thought

Quick question on monitoring one's breathing/HR, how does a breathing monitor work, and can you get HRMs that aren't a chest band?

Or do you have to do the chest band up tightly?

cjcp

lost_in_thought wrote:

Quick question on monitoring one's breathing/HR, how does a breathing monitor work, and can you get HRMs that aren't a chest band?

Or do you have to do the chest band up tightly?

Measures BPM.
Don't know.
You get used to the chest band; it's not uncomfortable. The pain in the legs is usually far greater.

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

Quick question on monitoring one's breathing/HR, how does a breathing monitor work, and can you get HRMs that aren't a chest band?

Or do you have to do the chest band up tightly?

You don't get breathing monitors outside of a lab.....

HRMs all* come with chest straps



* waiting for a smart arse to prove me wrong

greg66_tri_v2.0

cjcp wrote:

Says the "man" who's breathing apparently remains in the red when the road starts to go up. :twisted:

I only said that to make DDD feel better. It's not true. I thought that was obvious. 8)

linsen

Jen J wrote:

I'm really enjoying all this gearing talk. As a neophyte who has struggled to get my head around the simple physics of gearing, and is fascinated yet horrified by them (hence the Bowery) it is actually helping my head to make sense of it all.

You're being quite educational, boys

You've actually been reading it Jen?

cjcp

linsen wrote:

Jen J wrote:

I'm really enjoying all this gearing talk. As a neophyte who has struggled to get my head around the simple physics of gearing, and is fascinated yet horrified by them (hence the Bowery) it is actually helping my head to make sense of it all.

You're being quite educational, boys

You've actually been reading it Jen?

Did you skin a leopard and use its skin as bar tape? :shock: That's just really, really mean.