Global warming update

Unknown · June 2007

It is of course splendid news to see a vociferous idealist wake up to one of the realities of modern existence, not least because amongst the nonsense he's proclaimed there has been a lot of good practice that should be promoted for wider acceptance and action. He would only be a hypocrite if he continues to condemn others for owning (note I don't say 'using unnecessarily') a car (no matter where they live) because everyone has the right to change their mind to a more realistic and sensible solution/compromise. I trust he'll have the grace to issue an apology to all those he has previously condemned for owning a car.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

So you live in the centre of Sheffield, and you claim to have never seen a bus with more than 3 people on?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
YOu stand on snig hill on a morning and watch them all and you'll see what i mean.
I'll post some pics if you like.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I accept your challenge.

Monday morning. Centre of Sheffield. Find the bus terminus, then take pictures of every bus arriving between 8 and 9 am.

I'll do similar if you like. I'm going into town in the morning. I've got a camera on my phone.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

The problem with out of town centres and supermarkets is that parking is free (as well as plentiful) whereas town centre parking is charged for. Its been perpetuated by poor planning policy which has allowed out of town retail development on a massive scale, and failed to impose any requirement to charge for parking.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The problem with imposing charging to park out of town, is that parking out of town has got to be more attractive to park than in the city centre, otherwise everyone would (try to) park in the city centre - because given equal cost, it's more convenient - yet there just isn't the room. Market forces dicate that unfortunately, it's the same reason why house prices are more expensive there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're missing a very important factor though Bonjy. Millions of us live in an area with decent access to decent public transport. I can take the whole family into town on the bus for less than it costs to park in the city centre.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

simoncp · June 2007

Climate change is perhaps the gravest calamity our species has ever encountered. Its impact dwarfs that of any war, any plague, any famine we have confronted so far. It makes genocide and ethnic cleansing look like sideshows at the circus of human suffering. A car is now more dangerous than a gun; flying across the Atlantic is as unacceptable, in terms of its impact on human well-being, as child abuse. The rich are at play in the world's killing fields.

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/1999/07 ... /#more-462

How long before George is off to Disneyland by aeroplane with his darling daughter?

Unknown · June 2007

I love his comment "If you are unemployed or have little money the coach is the way to go, but if you need to get anywhere quickly it is unusable". In other words, the poor can go and fcuk themselves and leave the roads clear for the important people like myself.

An indefensable hypocrite. Why didn't he buy a Prius or an electric car? Probably not fast enough for him.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mjones

I do wonder how First Group and Stagecoach manage to make their vast profits running all those buses with just three people on. Can you englighten me bonj?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They didn't. Buses are subsidised, everyone knows that.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

mjones · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mjones

I do wonder how First Group and Stagecoach manage to make their vast profits running all those buses with just three people on. Can you englighten me bonj?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They didn't. Buses are subsidised, everyone knows that.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Idiot. Most bus services run commercially. Everyone who knows anything about transport knows that.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

So you live in the centre of Sheffield, and you claim to have never seen a bus with more than 3 people on?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
YOu stand on snig hill on a morning and watch them all and you'll see what i mean.
I'll post some pics if you like.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I accept your challenge.

Monday morning. Centre of Sheffield. Find the bus terminus, then take pictures of every bus arriving between 8 and 9 am.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I fully expect that while I will be impartially taking photos of the first buses that come along and posting them you will deliberately spend ages hunting down the one full one in the whole of Brum, probably just setting off on its way to Happy Hour at the West Bromwich branch of Gala, but still.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

I'll do similar if you like. I'm going into town in the morning. I've got a camera on my phone.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
i've got a camera on my phone AND a walkman on it AND a proper camera. so there.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

domd1979 · June 2007

Fine.... In which case you'll be able to explain the subsidy mechanisms?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
They didn't. Buses are subsidised, everyone knows that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

domd1979 · June 2007

West Brom isn't in Birmingham - "everyone knows that".

Just to give you a clue how busy Birmingham buses are - over half of people arriving in the city centre in the AM peak do so by public transport. That means the car is a minority mode. Travel West Midlands is also one of the UK's most profitable bus operations (and incidentally they hardly run anything under contract).

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
I fully expect that while I will be impartially taking photos of the first buses that come along and posting them you will deliberately spend ages hunting down the one full one in the whole of Brum, probably just setting off on its way to Happy Hour at the West Bromwich branch of Gala, but still.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

West Brom isn't in Birmingham - "everyone knows that".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes it is, it's well within Birmingham. Just like Salford is in Manchester.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Just to give you a clue how busy Birmingham buses are - over half of people arriving in the city centre in the AM peak do so by public transport. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's absolute cobblers.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Fine.... In which case you'll be able to explain the subsidy mechanisms?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Government takes money off public via tax. Government gives money to buses.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

mjones · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Fine.... In which case you'll be able to explain the subsidy mechanisms?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Government takes money off public via tax. Government gives money to buses.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Which part of "most bus services run commercially" don't you understand? Are you a bit thick?

domd1979 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Just to give you a clue how busy Birmingham buses are - over half of people arriving in the city centre in the AM peak do so by public transport. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's absolute cobblers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fraid not. Suggest you read this then - P15 is the one you need to look at. Buses carry a third of all trips into B'ham City Centre in the AM peak. And they do that by carrying significantly more than 3 people per bus. Rail/Metro carry another 22%, that leaves car as the minority mode. Just because the figures disprove your fantasy notions about public transport doesn't make it "cobblers".

West Brom is not in Birmingham. Only the geographically illiterate think otherwise.

domd1979 · June 2007

Yep, well can't refute the first bit. How's the second bit work then - by what mechanisms?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
Government takes money off public via tax. Government gives money to buses.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

So you live in the centre of Sheffield, and you claim to have never seen a bus with more than 3 people on?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
YOu stand on snig hill on a morning and watch them all and you'll see what i mean.
I'll post some pics if you like.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I accept your challenge.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

only a couple of people on the 75:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00006.jpg

no-one on this one:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00008.jpg

handful on the X78, probably no more than 5 though:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00009.jpg

can't see anybody on this one:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00010.jpg

the 132 stopping at its terminus, and only one person has got on:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00011.jpg

think the next one's the 120 to halfway - but it's empty whatever it is!
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00012.jpg

another one at the pond street terminus having spectacularly failed to attract a single passenger:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00015.jpg

oooh! that 120's been round again and it's managed to pick up a grand total of TWO people! wahey!
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00015.jpg

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Yep, well can't refute the first bit. How's the second bit work then - by what mechanisms?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cheque, probably...

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

domd1979 · June 2007

Hmmm. Hardly conclusive. Outer termini don't count. Some of those photos don't show the whole bus. They could have just unloaded for all we know. Not representative of bus operation in South Yorkshire I'd say.

If the X78 is allegedly so poorly loaded, perhaps you can tell us why First have just spent œ3.4m (of their own money) on 20 brand new double deckers specifically for that route? And why it operates up to every 10 minutes?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
only a couple of people on the 75:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00006.jpg

no-one on this one:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00008.jpg

handful on the X78, probably no more than 5 though:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00009.jpg

can't see anybody on this one:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00010.jpg

the 132 stopping at its terminus, and only one person has got on:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00011.jpg

think the next one's the 120 to halfway - but it's empty whatever it is!
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00012.jpg

another one at the pond street terminus having spectacularly failed to attract a single passenger:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00015.jpg

oooh! that 120's been round again and it's managed to pick up a grand total of TWO people! wahey!
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00015.jpg

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

domd1979 · June 2007

Before the dosh is handed over? You know what I'm asking, except you haven't the foggiest what the answer is.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Yep, well can't refute the first bit. How's the second bit work then - by what mechanisms?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cheque, probably...

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

So you live in the centre of Sheffield, and you claim to have never seen a bus with more than 3 people on?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
YOu stand on snig hill on a morning and watch them all and you'll see what i mean.
I'll post some pics if you like.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I accept your challenge.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

only a couple of people on the 75:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00006.jpg

no-one on this one:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00008.jpg

handful on the X78, probably no more than 5 though:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00009.jpg

can't see anybody on this one:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00010.jpg

the 132 stopping at its terminus, and only one person has got on:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00011.jpg

think the next one's the 120 to halfway - but it's empty whatever it is!
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00012.jpg

another one at the pond street terminus having spectacularly failed to attract a single passenger:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00015.jpg

oooh! that 120's been round again and it's managed to pick up a grand total of TWO people! wahey!
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00015.jpg

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well done. How did you manage to take photos of Mon-Fri peak-time buses when the challenge was only made at 10.30 last night?

And, despite your best efforts -photographing buses which had just emptied and selective parts of buses, you still manage to prove yourself to be a liar. There are two double deckers in tyour photos with a fair few people on.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Joe Sacco · June 2007

So buses are under utilised at non-peak times. If people didn't have the option of using a car then I guess the buses would be pretty full up wouldn't they!

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Hmmm. Hardly conclusive. Outer termini don't count. Some of those photos don't show the whole bus. They could have just unloaded for all we know. Not representative of bus operation in South Yorkshire I'd say.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excuses. They were simply the first buses I saw.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

If the X78 is <s>allegedly</s> so poorly loaded,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">(which it clearly is)
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

, perhaps you can tell us why First have just spent œ3.4m (of their own money) on 20 brand new double deckers specifically for that route? And why it operates up to every 10 minutes? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because it's not their money?

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Well done. How did you manage to take photos of Mon-Fri peak-time buses when the challenge was only made at 10.30 last night?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ah, so you're saying people only ever use buses in peak times, now are you?
They're just as busy on saturday as they are in the week, if not busier.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

And, despite your best efforts -photographing buses which had just emptied and selective parts of buses, you still manage to prove yourself to be a liar. There are two double deckers in tyour photos with a fair few people on.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well I knew the accusations of me being biased would fly, but this is just because you've lost the argument. Buses are always empty or nearly empty, and I've proved it - you just don't want to accept this fact.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

There are two double deckers in tyour photos with a fair few people on.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If by 'a fair few' you mean 'five', then I'll give you that, there are possibly 5 on a couple of them. Whoop-ti-doo.

If you think there's as much as 10, then circle them. And you can't count people on the other side of the street that you can see through BOTH sides of the bus.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

And, despite your best efforts -photographing buses which had just emptied and selective parts of buses, you still manage to prove yourself to be a liar. There are two double deckers in tyour photos with a fair few people on.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb21 ... C00011.jpg
Au contraire - this one has done the exact opposite, just filled up - you can clearly see its indicator on, and a grand total of ONE person has got on (she can clearly be seen to be walking towards the back as you can see her ponytail) and ONE person is getting off (holding the rail). It could be argued that the person holding the rail has actually just got on, but either way it's only either one or two.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Simon L2 · June 2007

the buses in London are packed. Why? Because there are more of them, and because they have bus lanes, and because you know when they're coming. The Evening Standard told us that more buses would mean empty buses. It turned out that if you minimised the wait then people would take them.

And, to show that I'm not some metropolitan London-centric who thinks of the provinces as a no-go area [:D] I am happy to report to you that the 192 bus from Manchester to Stockport is similarly rammed for much of its route because they run at three minute intervals.

Tourist Tony · June 2007

Pepole may remember that I quoted the change in bus use in, er, Bonj's own Sheffield post-deregulation, but after a lot of denial he eventually admitted he wasn't born then so couldn't comment.
Of course, the only evidence Bonj ever accepts is the evidence that agrees with him. He's been told repeatedly, for example, that bus companies are self-financing, but as it falls off the flat edges of Bonjworld he won't accept it.

[Bonj logic]I think Bonj is paid by the car inductry[/bl]

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

Pepole may remember that I quoted the change in bus use in, er, Bonj's own Sheffield post-deregulation, but after a lot of denial he eventually admitted he wasn't born then so couldn't comment.
Of course, the only evidence Bonj ever accepts is the evidence that agrees with him. He's been told repeatedly, for example, that bus companies are self-financing, but as it falls off the flat edges of Bonjworld he won't accept it.

[Bonj logic]I think Bonj is paid by the car inductry[/bl]

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's a very devious ploy to avoid claims of subsidisation to pump shedloads of cash into it to start with, and then let it live off that for years to come. This is exactly what's happened with the buses.
They may not get a regular income from the government, but they get "help" here and "help" there. Need a new fleet? On the house. Need a new depot? Don't mention it.
If you think you can convince me that the fact that they don't get a direct monthly injection of hard cash straight out the public purse means they're not still milking the taxpayer, then you've got another thing coming.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

domd1979 · June 2007

Bonj. You know absolutely sod all about the bus industry, its history, the legislation that governs it, or how it operates.

Your notions as to how the industry is apparently entirely publicly funded are pure fantasy.

If any of your claims are true, then lets see some substantive evidence. Except you don't have any.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
It's a very devious ploy to avoid claims of subsidisation to pump shedloads of cash into it to start with, and then let it live off that for years to come. This is exactly what's happened with the buses.
They may not get a regular income from the government, but they get "help" here and "help" there. Need a new fleet? On the house. Need a new depot? Don't mention it.
If you think you can convince me that the fact that they don't get a direct monthly injection of hard cash straight out the public purse means they're not still milking the taxpayer, then you've got another thing coming.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

domd1979 · June 2007

Your sample of a few buses is not conclusive. It is not statistically significant. You chose to ignore the evidence I pointed you to showing the level of bus use into Birmingham City Centre, as an example, because it disproved your fantasy that apparently no-one uses buses.

The X78 - I'll repeat what I said.... The œ3.4m for 20 new buses was spent by First, the cash did not come from the public purse. If its as poorly loaded as you like to allege, it wouldn't run at a frequency of up to every 10 minutes. There's only one reason buses run at that sort of frequency: cos they're busy. And œ3.4m of investment doesn't pay for itself with your alleged 3 passengers/bus does it? So First will have made bloody sure it is going to pay before spending its shareholder's money.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

Hmmm. Hardly conclusive. Outer termini don't count. Some of those photos don't show the whole bus. They could have just unloaded for all we know. Not representative of bus operation in South Yorkshire I'd say.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excuses. They were simply the first buses I saw.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

If the X78 is <s>allegedly</s> so poorly loaded,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">(which it clearly is)
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domd1979

, perhaps you can tell us why First have just spent œ3.4m (of their own money) on 20 brand new double deckers specifically for that route? And why it operates up to every 10 minutes? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because it's not their money?

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Global warming update

Comments

Categories