Global warming update

simoncp · June 2007

George Monbiot has bought a car.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/li ... 870293.ece

The Bosscp · June 2007

Rearrange the words: "Do, do, I, I, as, as, say, not."

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Unknown · June 2007

Bit of a non-story really.

Asterixcp · June 2007

'must admit I don't know a great deal about what Monbiot has said concerning whether or not joe public should own cars.

What it seems to boil down to is that the alternatives in the part of the UK he has moved to are inadequate. Hardly a revelation.

OTOH, the level of car use in this country is completely bonkers. Yesterday I had to take an animal to a vet in York at 09:40. I set off at 08:50 and just made it in time. It's a journey of about 6 miles!

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

ankev1 · June 2007

I think his stance is reasonable. Unless you live in a city where you can do without a car, the best you can do is to try to keep car useage down to the minimum.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

18 years without one aint bad!
we all have to make compromises- the system, in its effect, forces us to
Do you have a car simon?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Unkraut · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Do you have a car simon?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That'll open the floodgates for a diatribe about VED. [;)]

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

I think his stance is reasonable. Unless you live in a city where you can do without a car, the best you can do is to try to keep car useage down to the minimum.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's ok to have a car, but he is someone who is an
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"environmental campaigner, scourge of the automobile industry and champion of not owning cars"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">, and who
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"once described the pro-car lobby as "antisocial bastards" and has blamed cars for ruining children's lives."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm someone who lives in a city but still has a <s>car</s> vehicle, and I could do without it but choose not to. Although I don't use it for commuting every day, I only use it for shopping, commuting when it's raining (like today, which isn't very often), and the odd weekend trip out. So consequently, i can quite easily live with myself because if everyone used a car only as much as I do, then the world'd be a much less car-using place.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Gary Askwith · June 2007

I don't own a car but i dont get sanctimonious about it........[xx(]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

redcogs · June 2007

Some here discus environmentalists as though they could, or at the very least, ought, to exist by generating no 'carbon footprint' whatsoever, clearly an impossible objective.

If Monbiot needs a car occasionally to continue with the excellent anti capitalist work that he is capable of, then he has my support.

If ever he gets to Banff he'd be welcome to tea and biscuits (brewed and cooked in my non fossil fuel imaginary oven) at redcogs villa - but he would have to expect a gentle lecture about why the working class is central to any worthwhile societal reforms.

[:)]

please look up to the stars.. ***

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

Bit of a non-story really.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Have you noticed that anything which is embarrassing is a "non story?" Alastair Campbell used to employ this technique to try and convince journalists that they'd misjudged a situation badly, and were going to make fools of themselves by writing about something that was to the discredit of the government.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I'm someone who lives in a city but still has a <s>car</s> vehicle, and I could do without it but choose not to. Although I don't use it for commuting every day, I only use it for shopping, commuting when it's raining (like today, which isn't very often), and the odd weekend trip out. So consequently, i can quite easily live with myself because if everyone used a car only as much as I do, then the world'd be a much less car-using place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can you not see a difference between the two of you?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Unknown · June 2007

Perhaps Mr Monbiot has come to the conclusion that since the sort of person who persists in getting in their car to go to the newsagents' shop a quarter of a mile away doesn't give a toss about his descendants, he can enjoy the utility of a car without giving a toss about theirs.

A point of view for which I have considerable sympathy.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

I'm fulling intending to get through life without owning a car, but I'd never say 'never'. I've tried to arrange my life so that I don't need to, so far succesfully.

What George says does sound reasonable to some extent, and he's pretty open about his own misgivings - it's not as if he's trying to hide it... but he's going to open himself up to a lot of snide remarks from the kind of people who've never done anything useful in their lives.

Relationships change you too. In a relationship, there's two people (at least) and it's difficult (ethically and practically) to impose your personal ethics on someone. It seems pretty clear here that this aspect is pretty central to this decision. I can understand that too.

The one thing that puzzles me is why simoncp thinks this is news about global warming... is he one again failing to notice an ad-hominem argument? What exactly does this say about global warming, apart from maybe that our current transport system does not exactly facilitate ecologically sensible choices?

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

Bit of a non-story really.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Have you noticed that anything which is embarrassing is a "non story?" Alastair Campbell used to employ this technique to try and convince journalists that they'd misjudged a situation badly, and were going to make fools of themselves by writing about something that was to the discredit of the government.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not really something I had noticed, but now you've pointed it out I guess it could be. I'll keep an eye out for it in the future.

I thought it was a non-story because George had explained why he'd made the decision he had and as far as I could see it was justifiable. It didn't give the impression that he'd been discredited, unless you read the story with preconceived opinions about the chap that you didn't want to be challenged of course!

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I'm someone who lives in a city but still has a <s>car</s> vehicle, and I could do without it but choose not to. Although I don't use it for commuting every day, I only use it for shopping, commuting when it's raining (like today, which isn't very often), and the odd weekend trip out. So consequently, i can quite easily live with myself because if everyone used a car only as much as I do, then the world'd be a much less car-using place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can you not see a difference between the two of you?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm not a hypocrite, Georgie McBiased or whatever his name is, is?

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I'm someone who lives in a city but still has a <s>car</s> vehicle, and I could do without it but choose not to... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Can you not see a difference between the two of you?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, everybody could do without a car. How many people had cars 100 years ago?

The more pertinent issue is surely whether those who insist on using cars should be allowed to take the piss by using them irresponsibly.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

One car per household address only should be imposed-no exceptions apart from disabled [}:)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Unknown · June 2007

As far as I can make out, George is living pretty close to Nick Griffin of the BNP. Couldn't they work out some sort of car sharing arrangement?

The Bosscp · June 2007

One noticeable difference is that he says he can't do without it, I say I can do without it*.
But then again he has to say he can't do without it, because he's got to save some face - he's spent most of his live going on rants about the evils of cars which kind of morally precludes him from having one just because he wants one.
Still, I don't believe that he can't do without one. It seems to be the generally accepted consensus that you can do without a car if you live in the city, but not if you live 'out in the sticks', so what's to stop Georgie-boy living in the city? Ah yes. He doesn't want to. He doesn't like all the cars, because he likes to pretend they don't exist.

* And don't go down the road of telling me I'm wrong and asking me to prove I can do without it because I just bloody well have done, it's been in the garage for the last 10 days having a new water pump - with the (not entirely undesirable) consequence that I've been forced into becoming a fully paid-up member of the pannier brigade.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

The one thing that puzzles me is why simoncp thinks this is news about global warming... is he one again failing to notice an ad-hominem argument? What exactly does this say about global warming, apart from maybe that our current transport system does not exactly facilitate ecologically sensible choices?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Apart from the fact that George is a global warming campaigner, and that he's been ousted as a hypocrite, it's not.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

One car per household address only should be imposed...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oooh, we could do better than that; how about no individual car ownership at all? When you "need" one, you get it from a pool; there is only one car in the pool for every 5 households. All users pay a standard fee; the longer it is since you last used one, the higher your priority.

Just think how much better off we would be, how much pleasanter cycling would be, how much less cluttered city streets would be, how much fitter we would be, how much better buses and coaches would run...

Of course, the feeble-minded majority whose pathetic little personalities would crumble without the weekly ritual of polishing their pride and joy wouldn't like it, so it'll never happen here [V]

Gary Askwith · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NickM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

One car per household address only should be imposed...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oooh, we could do better than that; how about no individual car ownership at all? When you "need" one, you get it from a pool; there is only one car in the pool for every 5 households.

Just think how much better off we would be, how much pleasanter cycling would be, how much less cluttered city streets would be, how much fitter we would be, how much better buses and coaches would run...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Same for cycles, racks of em outside every train/bus terminal in a properly integrated network, keen youngsters employed to service & maintain-on decent wages...yes living in Gazville will be lovely [:)][;)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Jaded · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

George Monbiot has bought a car.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/li ... 870293.ece

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think the biggest news here is that it has taken simoncp 10 days to get to the Motoring Section of the Sunday Times of 3rd June.

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NickM

The more pertinent issue is surely whether those who insist on using cars should be allowed to take the piss by using them irresponsibly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, I may be accused of using my motor when I don't need to and 'therefore irresponsibly', but I use it a lot less than most people who "only use it responsibly", because I have specifically engineered my life such that I don't have to use it to commute, by living in the city and working in the same city. Some people haven't bothered to do this, yet still claim they 'need' a car to get to work. And in doing so, they actually end up using the car more and at busier times than someone like me. So I would suggest that therefore I'm in fact the more responsible motorist.

It reminds me of the scene in "The Darling Buds of May" where the couple are pulling into a campsite in their car, and they happen upon a hiking fellow, with a big rucksack on his back clearly carrying all of his things in it, who is also smoking. One of them leans out of the window, and the dialog goes something like this:
"Excuse me, would you mind not smoking please, it's polluting the environment."
"Not as much as your car's polluting the environment."
"But we NEED our car to get from A to B!"

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

I'm someone who lives in a city but still has a <s>car</s> vehicle, and I could do without it but choose not to. Although I don't use it for commuting every day, I only use it for shopping, commuting when it's raining (like today, which isn't very often), and the odd weekend trip out. So consequently, i can quite easily live with myself because if everyone used a car only as much as I do, then the world'd be a much less car-using place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can you not see a difference between the two of you?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm not a hypocrite, Georgie McBiased or whatever his name is, is?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why is he a hypocrite? For suggesting that people like you who admit that they don't need a car, don't need a car?

And never mind whether or not you need a car. Do you need a van?[;)]

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NickM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

One car per household address only should be imposed...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oooh, we could do better than that; how about no individual car ownership at all? When you "need" one, you get it from a pool; there is only one car in the pool for every 5 households. All users pay a standard fee; the longer it is since you last used one, the higher your priority.

Just think how much better off we would be, how much pleasanter cycling would be, how much less cluttered city streets would be, how much fitter we would be, how much better buses and coaches would run...

Of course, the feeble-minded majority whose pathetic little personalities would crumble without the weekly ritual of polishing their pride and joy wouldn't like it, so it'll never happen here [V]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That sounds like a great idea, the only issue I'd have with it is WHERE would this 'pool' be? If you've got to travel to get to the pool in the first place, surely you can use that method of transport to get to whereever you were going to go in the car...
For me the benefit of having your own car is not so that you can be proud of it and polish it every sunday (although it is for some people [|)] )but that it's sat outside your house and if you want to nip to asda you don't have to lug 6 heavy carrier-bags around in the pouring rain, or manhandle them onto buses squashing all your fruit and veg when they get trapped between the seats in the process and what not.

I've got a good idea - why don't THEY pay US to go on buses, rather than making people pay fares? You've got to in some way prove that you're doing a necessary journey, such as if you're going to the supermarket you just get a 'there-and-back slip' and then only get the money on the way back when you've clearly got the shopping, or if you're going to work you have to have a card from your employer which verifies your address and your employer's address. Let's face it - private motoring is the ultimate in convenience, and people are prepared to pay through the nose for convenience, but since money talks, the only way to get people on to buses would be to pay them to do so. It would be easy to find the money to do so, just whack it all on the london congestion charge (possibly also introduce a birmingham one) and raise the rest through increased road tax on 4x4s, audis, and renault meganes.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Mister Paul · June 2007

I wonder how many people realise that it would be cheaper to do the Asda shopping by taxi than having a car for that kind of journey?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Why is he a hypocrite? For suggesting that people like you who admit that they don't need a car, don't need a car?

And never mind whether or not you need a car. Do you need a van?[;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No I don't NEED a van, I choose to have one because I can carry my bikes in it, we don't NEED buses, trains, bikes, or most of today's inventions - they didn't have them 3,000 years ago but they still survived.
But at least I admit that I have it because I choose to and don't say one thing and then go back on my word. Besides my van is diesel and uses less fuel than my previous car did so in getting it I have helped the environment.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

That sounds like a great idea, the only issue I'd have with it is WHERE would this 'pool' be?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't see why it needs to have any particular geographical location; why couldn't the locally available cars just be parked in the street - about 1 to every 5 houses? Our household's vehicle is frequently parked more than 5 houses away because of pressure on parking spaces anyway.

Access to cars could be by an electronic key; it wouldn't let you get in and drive away unless the system "knew" that you were the legitimate driver for that day. I seem to remember reading (in the interesting if hopelessly idealistic book "Car Sick" by Lynn Sloman) that there are a few such pioneering schemes in operation already.

I can't see any insuperable obstacles to such a scheme except the mindset of the majority of the population, who have an inappropriate emotional attachment to their vehicles.

Unknown · June 2007

I have a car because life would be inconvenient without one. If I could do without a car, I would still have one because I like driving.

And motoring provides a major boost to the economy, despite the bogus claims of the anti-car lobby.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

Global warming update

Comments

Categories