This whole RLJ thing

TheJollyJimLad · June 2007

It is illegal, selfish and how come RLJers always have that furtive guilty look when nudging out at junctions (because their commute is SO much more urgent and important than the rest of us).

Also, people won't remember the hard work carried out by cycle campaign groups across the land (particularly pertinent with Bike Week nearly upon us), but they will remember the pillock that nearly smacked into them whilst breaking a red light or hopping up on to the pavement to avoid it. It sets the work of anyone trying to promote the cause of cycling back by years.

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funkyrayman · June 2007

Can a RLJer please be nice enough to reply and explain to me the reason why it's not acceptable for small motorbikes to jump red lights?

That's if you can conjure up a valid reason as to why only push bikes may pass through red lights...

Eat My Dust · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyrayman

Can a RLJer please be nice enough to reply and explain to me the reason why it's not acceptable for small motorbikes to jump red lights?

That's if you can conjure up a valid reason as to why only push bikes may pass through red lights...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They don't have an answer!

SNAPS

funkyrayman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyrayman

Can a RLJer please be nice enough to reply and explain to me the reason why it's not acceptable for small motorbikes to jump red lights?

That's if you can conjure up a valid reason as to why only push bikes may pass through red lights...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They don't have an answer!

SNAPS

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It seems so. Seems like a perfectly valid question to me...

Crooky · June 2007

Roastie you raised some interesting points and I totally agree with all of them. However if you want a decent discussion you've come to the wrong place all you're get here is the same old ridiculous replies like "if bikes do it why can't cars" or slave mentality replies like " oh but it upsets the motorists".

It's not worth it mate, just carry on being a responsible RLJer just as I intend to.

Eat My Dust · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Crooky

It's not worth it mate, just carry on being a responsible RLJer just as I intend to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Change the word "RLJer" for "speed limit breaking driver".

SNAPS

funkyrayman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Crooky

Roastie you raised some interesting points and I totally agree with all of them. However if you want a decent discussion you've come to the wrong place all you're get here is the same old ridiculous replies like "if bikes do it why can't cars" or slave mentality replies like " oh but it upsets the motorists".

It's not worth it mate, just carry on being a responsible RLJer just as I intend to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Interesting. Can you answer my question above then? Not cars (large vehicle). Small 125 or less motorbike, same size as a bicycle. Do you feel he is entitled to RLJ for his own safety?

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cupoftea

Yeah Really RLJing is so important, it's resposible for how many deaaths? As apposed to speeding cars. But then come on this really matters

I really don't think we should talk about lorries turning left or cyclists riding off the pavement, that would be a real waste of time

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are blatantly breaking the law for your own convenience.

You should get your own house in order before you tell other road users how to behave.

Why do some of us have to obey the rules so the selfish ones can disregard it?

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Crooky · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Crooky

It's not worth it mate, just carry on being a responsible RLJer just as I intend to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Change the word "RLJer" for "speed limit breaking driver".

SNAPS

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you can't see the difference between a car and a bicycle you have a problem. And a motorbike for that matter (funky).

Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Crooky

Roastie you raised some interesting points and I totally agree with all of them. However if you want a decent discussion you've come to the wrong place all you're get here is the same old ridiculous replies like "if bikes do it why can't cars" or slave mentality replies like " oh but it upsets the motorists".

It's not worth it mate, just carry on being a responsible RLJer just as I intend to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Meaning that you don't have an anwer to the above question, or even a good response to the other arguments put forward either.

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Eat My Dust · June 2007

Don't be soft. I'm trying to demonstrate how you're argument is the same as other selfish people who decide which laws they want to abide to. Funky has a very valid point. I can out accelerate, and have a higher top speed than a clapped out pizza shop moped, so why can't they jump the lights "safely"?

SNAPS

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

Probably because they have a number plate.

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cupofteacp · June 2007

So if the law tells you to put your head in the oven you obey?
By the way I don't advocate breaking the law

Sitting at lights is dangerous, juntions are dangerous, just look at the figure for cyclists deaths between 1999 and 2005. RLJing provides a method of mitigating those risks.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that the present set of traffic lights systems increase your (that is if you cycle) risks of being killed.

Just look at the recent pieces in the press and on the CTC website.

I tell you what the best thing is for all of us to start driving to work

or we could do as CM has threaten and all cycle like cars and sit 1 1/2 mts out, blocking the traffic riding slowly, can you imagine if we got every cyclist to do that, all the summer cyclist, all the numptys, all the MTBers, all the Roadies

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Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cupoftea

So if the law tells you to put your head in the oven you obey?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thats not a good analogy. The law doesn't tell me to put my head in an oven, it tells me to wait at a red light. The former would kill you, the latter wouldn't.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
By the way I don't advocate breaking the law

Sitting at lights is dangerous, juntions are dangerous, just look at the figure for cyclists deaths between 1999 and 2005. RLJing provides a method of mitigating those risks.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, it doesn't. Please, show me stats that show casualties waiting behind a junction in an appropriate road position. The simple truth is that if you shuffle to the front and wait to the left of another vehicle then you're asking for trouble, if you pick an appropriate and safe road position and wait your turn to go across a junction you'll be much, much safer.

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The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cab

No man is an island (as one more eloquent than me once said). Your actions impact on more than just you; the more cyclists are seen to needlessly disobey rules, the more we all get it in the neck. Like it or not, thats how it is; I defy you to bring the subject up amongst motorists without getting loads of vitriol.
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Don't cyclists "get it in the neck" anyway?
The real reason a lot of motorists don't like cyclists is because they can make better progress through traffic, but this doesn't sound like a legitimate gripe so they will always think up some excuse.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cab

Red light jumping is (in my experience) invariably indicative of plodding, slow, ineffective cyclists who neither obey the laws of the road nor guidelines for safe cycling (good road positioning, being visible, etc.).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's not a reason not to RLJ though, because if you do you'll be seen as "plodding" by Cab. Oh no.

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

Don't believe that.

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Eat My Dust · June 2007

I'm sorry, but in all the years that I've been cycling I've only ever had one incident at a set of red traffic lights, and this was when I had stopped for a red and a ****wit in the car behind ran it and nearly wiped me out.

"Just look at the recent pieces in the press and on the CTC website"

If a journalist told you to stick your head in a oven, would you?

SNAPS

Origamist · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Don't be soft. I'm trying to demonstrate how you're argument is the same as other selfish people who decide which laws they want to abide to. Funky has a very valid point. I can out accelerate, and have a higher top speed than a clapped out pizza shop moped, so why can't they jump the lights "safely"?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They very often do, particularly after 10pm in my neck of the woods...

Folders

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

Hmmm, what about it being illegal?

I'd shoplift if I was allowed to, as it's illegal I don't!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But shoplifting has a victim. RLJing is a victimless crime.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyrayman

Can a RLJer please be nice enough to reply and explain to me the reason why it's not acceptable for small motorbikes to jump red lights?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Probably is, safety-wise. Not advisable though, as if there's a camera on the lights you can get photographed and ticketed.

Eat My Dust · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

Hmmm, what about it being illegal?

I'd shoplift if I was allowed to, as it's illegal I don't!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But shoplifting has a victim. RLJing is a victimless crime.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What if you hit a pedestrian??

Oh I forgot, that would be there fault for not looking where they were going!!

SNAPS

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyrayman

Interesting. Can you answer my question above then? Not cars (large vehicle). Small 125 or less motorbike, same size as a bicycle. Do you feel he is entitled to RLJ for his own safety?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He's less likely to need to though, as he's more likely to be able to accelerate at the same speed as or faster than the cars when the lights change.

Eat My Dust · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyrayman

Interesting. Can you answer my question above then? Not cars (large vehicle). Small 125 or less motorbike, same size as a bicycle. Do you feel he is entitled to RLJ for his own safety?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He's less likely to need to though, as he's more likely to be able to accelerate at the same speed as or faster than the cars when the lights change.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So you "need" to jump the lights? are you a big fat bloater?

SNAPS

funkyrayman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyrayman

Interesting. Can you answer my question above then? Not cars (large vehicle). Small 125 or less motorbike, same size as a bicycle. Do you feel he is entitled to RLJ for his own safety?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He's less likely to need to though, as he's more likely to be able to accelerate at the same speed as or faster than the cars when the lights change.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's not true. The smallest bike i've ever ridden was a 125cc and that couldn't out do cars at all. Those pizza boys are on 50/70/90cc bikes. Also most 50cc bikes top out at 30 mph. So it is quite conceivable a cyclist can out accelerate and reach a higher top speed.

(Original post was a bit harsh...)

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

Hmmm, what about it being illegal?

I'd shoplift if I was allowed to, as it's illegal I don't!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But shoplifting has a victim. RLJing is a victimless crime.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Shoplifting you will get nicked eventually.The worst I have heard for RLJing is a fine.

Hackbike 8 Commuting Debut 09/09/2006Dawes Audax 2006 New 20/09/2006 

 Cycle Commuting since 1981 

Cycling Proficiency Test 24 May 1977 (30 years ago)

 Ride to work part 1 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/ypjapc
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FatBlokeFromFelixstowe · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cupoftea

Sitting at lights is dangerous, junctions are dangerous <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry but that is cack and is often the argument used by a cyclist who cannot be bothered to obey the law. Just admit it, you jump lights because you cannot be arsed to wait.

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The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

What if you hit a pedestrian??

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Then the crime for which the pededstrian was a victim of is careless cycling, not RLJing, as the very fact that the pedestrian was hit was not purely because the cyclist had RLJed, but due to the fact they didn't look out for the ped while doing it.

Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss
Don't cyclists "get it in the neck" anyway?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not most of the time, no. In fact nearly every day I have as near as dammit an uneventful ride in which most motorists are friendly. But the more we get idiot cyclists acting like, well, idiot cyclists the worse we get it.

Look at the vitriol from Londoners towards the increased number of cycists there, its nearly all based on red light jumping. Sooner or later we'll see some pretty draconian anti-cycling laws because of this.

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Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by funkyraymanThat's not true. The smallest bike i've ever ridden was a 125cc and that couldn't out do cars at all. Those pizza boys are on 50/70/90cc bikes. Also most 50cc bikes top out at 30 mph. So it is quite conceivable a cyclist can out accelerate and reach a higher top speed.

(Original post was a bit harsh...)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It isn't just conceivable, its something I manage sometimes. Not especially hard, especially if the little motorbike is poorly maintained.

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This whole RLJ thing

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