BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

that's a list of usa companies, nonsensical to single out the eu as not producing equivalents when the rest of the planet hasn't either

obviously it's nothing to do with the eu, the vast majority of non-eu countries have had little success

sap (germany) is one, but that's eu of course, strong in it's niche is the uk gaming industry, also founded whilst in the eu

what counts to create a new one is access to clever people, capital, market access/size, and in the case of all those you mention, a hefty dollop of luck, also good acquisition strategies for many of them

all heavily reliant on being usa based to get going, and the massive advantage that gives vs. row

the uk lacks capital and market size, especially post-brexit

most non-usa successes get gobbled up, which is good for their founders/backers, but means they vanish into the new parent

china has the prerequisites in abundance, but culture, language and politics are limiting ability to globalise, given local market size it's probably not a huge concern for them

I specifically referred to 'big tech', which has grown massively in the 21st century and has been a big driver of profits, jobs and (for the Cake Stop benefit) tax revenues.

You would think that the EU, with a larger population amd a similar sized economy to the US, might have managed one or two, but the EU big groups are very much 20th century, with lower growth etc. Which helps to explain the weak growth in the EU. However the EU seems more interested in regulating than allowing growth in this area.

They'll be some relieved small state Brexiters reading that.

Yeah. You know. The guy who saved the euro. Who solved the sovereign debt crisis. The guy who made the “whatever it takes” speech, probably the most important speech in and for Europe this century.

He certainly bought a stay of execution for the single currency.

as pointed out i above posts, the eu is a bunch of separate, relatively small (vs. usa. china) countries with their own languages, cultures and business practices

small countries are unlikely to produce a big tech company for the same reasons all the non-eu are unlikely to

i.e it's really nothing to do with the eu

if the eu took control and became a super-state in order to emulate the usa/china, the torygraph would no doubt be moaning about the eu power grab and how it threatens plucky blighty

The problem you're running into Stevo, is the complaint that the EU overreaches on national sovereignty, which you often have articulated, is precisely why the market is not as homogenous and over-regulated as somewhere like the US.

So which do you want? You can't have it both ways. Either you're OK with divergence and fragmentation and the associated costs, or you're not.

But it is precisely the resistance to EU "overreach" over national governments that prevents better market integration and regulation homogeneity.

The same thing you have always complained about.

So do you think Europe ought to have more homogeneity in market regulation or not?

Who is saying it does?

TBH, part of me is pleased the cost of balkanising the EU is being put forward, and the gains to be had by closer co-operation.

The individual economies of Europe are not, relatively, as big as they used to be, and so the imperative of grouping together to achieve economies of scale are only getting greater.

It's €800bn of investment in addition to what the private sector can cover - to be clear.

That is not spending on deregulation. That's additional. You could just read the summary of the findings and conclusions and then have a more constructive debate about it!

So what's wrong with the argument he puts forward?

It's partly so big to cover the lack of investment for the last decade, and is a reflection that both the US and China are quite keen on heavy state intervention, in their own ways, to foster and encourage growth in new areas (tax breaks for Tech etc).

Lol Ireland wins both ways. Got the massive Apple investment and then ended up getting the tax bill anyway.

"Don't worry lads, we'll appeal it" *sends appeal riddled with errors* "oh no, it turns out our appeal had errors, sorry Apple. Anyway, here's the address for the €13bn"

Sure. But both US and China have done that successfully.

American tax breaks are sizeable

and Korea and Japan before that, etc etc.

The reality is that this stuff is happening whether people like to admit it or not, so either you get on and play the game or you lose out in some theoretical argument.

I don't really care, that's a matter for the EU.

yes, exactly same as many other small countries, of which the eu is bunch

again, the eu sets standards, not investment policy, there're some huge research investments, but they tend to be fundamental (of course there are important spin-offs that come from this), i'd say the existing rules against state subsidies may be part of the problem, but that's in the hands of the member states to come together and change how the rules are set

it's up to the countries to act, either alone, in groups, or actually change how the eu operates, though in the case of the latter, it'll face the same pork barrel issues that the usa does whenever government throws money at making stuff

as with 'levelling up' in the uk, it's a nice idea, but does it work? simply shifting things from the southeast to somewhere else, takes time, costs money and is inherently unproductive

i'm extremely hostile to throwing taxpayers' money at business models that are unable to attract capital from people who'd like to see rather more roi than some gullible (or corrupt) politicians' pr, britishvolt for instance

again, the usa is a big market that really is quite homogeneous, with lots of capital, and a regulatory/legal environment in many states that favours start ups

changing uk/eu regulatory conditions would be a positive step, but there're still the constraints of real market size and capital, investors invest where the money is to be made - me predominantly usa, with a chunk eu/asia, hardly any uk, there's no sentiment involved, just what gives me the best return, mostly medium risk run by people paid to do it, but with a few gambles of my own in more volatile stuff, but uk? why would i when i can get bette roi elsewhere?

another issue for the uk/eu, it all seems so tired and mired in the the past, it's nice for tourism, but we could do with less nostalgia and fantasy of bringing back 'the good old days', and more much ambition to do new stuff and screw the stupid rules - rules made up by a bunch of fuddy duddy self-serving bletherers who can't even manage to install voting buttons, let alone reinvigorate the economy