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One of your previous posts.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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Don't they also famously get paid more for private work?
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wouldn't surprise me
last private check-up, i mentioned the reports of difficulty getting gp appointments, she laughed and said her nhs patients often complain about that
a friend who's a doctor (guess what, leaving uk for eu in a couple of months) has a low opinion of many nhs consultants - leaving the juniors to run things while they do more lucrative private work, also the aversion to working nights/weekends, also, if you get inured at a weekend, you need the ambulance to take you to a major trauma centre, even if it's a longer ride, otherwise you may get parked for a day or two
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
My guess would be that people who have comprehensive private healthcare and don't have to use the NHS are less likely to care about the NHS service provided to the proles and more likely to care about what it adds to their tax bill.
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some may, but it's a foolish attitude, they'll still need the nhs to look after them if there's a serious injury, it won't be bupa scraping them up
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
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Err, no. Consideration of the market rate is not the same as state control of markets. What makes you think it is?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Quite a lot actually. And as you say, it's a way for doctors to earn more. So there is another market for their services outside the NHS, which is the point that I was making.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yep, that's why they do it. I was demonstrating to Rick that the NHS is not the only buyer in town for doctors services.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
but if the other buyer pays more than the NHS then surely that raises the market rate?
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Wil, depend to some extent exactly what is being provided. The service and speed of delivery in the private sector is generally better. However It shows that a seller of services will tend to maximise their profits where the opportunity arises.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ah, gotcha. Misunderstood your question. On the one hand you were suggesting that the government should bear in mind market rate and so on, but then you seem to also suggest that they can override that and just dictate terms.
The ASLEF deal is below inflation and less favourable than the increase in state pension over the same period. The shortage of drivers - the entire network has been reliant on overtime for years - despite a pretty comfortable salary suggests that that is the market rate, but you're still not happy with the result because you 'feel' that it's too much and it involves the U-word.
Undoubtedly ASLEF are using the situation to their advantage but we just tried two years of macho we're-not-giving-in and even former Conservative ministers admit that it cost far more than the pay deal will. A better solution would be to recruit enough drivers so that there isn't such a demand for ASLEF, and let operators set their own pay, but we are where we are and this at least ends (most of) the dispute.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think part of the issue is that driver training etc is oversubscribed. I suspect the level of training is higher than it "needs" to be, otoh we have fairly safe railways.
Paying a load of money to private sector consultants to automate the railways would, I suspect end in disaster. Although it would likely personally benefit me, in terms of suring up my bonus.
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I guess it's not a profession where it's not easy to open up to competition, especially as each route needs specific training (on each signal/junction etc. IIRC) and so flexibility is challenging to achieve. I'm pretty sure if there were 'a few more' accidents on the railway because driver standards were lowered 'just a bit' to keep down the cost, there would be a public outcry.
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A market rate is generally defined as the price reached between a willing buyer and a willing seller. The use of (effectively) extortion tactics by the rail unions messing up other people's working lives and businesses via transport disruption mean that one party is probably less than willing. It is effective in a way, but not something that necesarily leads to a market rate being agreed, hence the increases for these workers being higher that for many other public sector workers who are not so selfish when it comes to striking.
If the train drivers don't like what they're getting paid they should leave and get a Job that pays better - if they can....
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm not sure the train drivers getting other jobs really helps the situation...
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I do love the way selfishness is good when it's got a blue tinge but bad when it's got more of a red hue. Let's take all the emotive bollox out of it: there's no fundamental difference between an buyer dictating a price or a seller dictating a price. The previous government chose to take over the setting of pay and terms from the TOCs, removing the market and giving more power to ASLEF. They can hardly complain when the obvious result happens.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Plus there's not a surfeit of replacement train drivers. Ditto GPs. Ditto teachers. Seems like really bad management to provoke sectors where there's already a shortage and the lead times for adding workers to the sectors is very long. At least Thatcher had a Plan B when she took on the miners.
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One of the former Tory rail Minister's, Huw Merriman, has actually come out and apologised for failing to end the dispute during his tenure, and understands why Labour have cut a deal and drawn a line under it so everyone can move on.
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Missing the point. Being able to get a better paid job elsewhere is a good determinant of their market value. Somehow I think many of them would struggle.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Well, yes - they are trained to drive trains.
If I were suddenly unable to do my job tomorrow for some reason, I expect I would need to take a pay cut to go into a job where I have no qualifications or experience.
I expect the same would be true of surgeons, fighter pilots and just about any job with a degree of specialisation - maybe even tax gurus. Does that mean we are all over paid?
What a strange definition of market value salary.
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This feels a bit like that ridiculous poll where a significant proportion of the population reckon they could reach Olympic standard in 4 years.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
By this metric maybe you should complain more about professional sportspeople.
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Have just been reading an in depth explanation of why driverless trains are at least a couple of generations away if ever. Main issue is the inability to limit access to most of the railway network. AOT systems have only ever been used on closed systems like the Victoria Line and DLR. We can't even stop idiots driving around level crossing barriers at the moment.
Second point was the need for a unified signalling system across the entire network. Current plan is to have the whole network up to *current* signalling standards by 2050.
Third point is that no manufacturers are developing these systems because the outlay needed to develop and implement a system is huge and the benefits of a few less employees are just not there.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You are good on whataboutery.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nah you made a silly point.
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What a compelling argument.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Oopsie....
Didn't take long for the sleaze to start creeping in.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Keep up, we did this one yesterday.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
