Join the Labour Party and save your country!
Comments
-
If only the previous government hadn't decided that it should set the pay terms, for private companies then those private companies could settle their own pay disputes.
It's a shame Labour are continuing with the mad idea that governments should run businesses.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
For who? These public sector rises are above inflation.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nope.
Aslef pay deal
100×1.05×1.0475×1.045 = 114.93.
Annual rate of inflation
22-23 = 9.1%
23-24 = ~ 4%
24-25 = ? Let's say 2.2%
100×1.091×1.04×1.022 = 115.96.
Pay deal is below inflation.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Compound interest shouldn't be that tricky for someone who works with percentages.
Or just trolling.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Isn't it the first rise since 2019?
0 -
Strikes are also incredibly expensive so you have to factor in the benefit of not having those too
0 -
You are taking a previous year into account which is rather convenient. The normal way of looking at this is simply to compare the current inflation rate with the pay rise. On that basis it is clearly above inflation.
Although regardless of how you compare it to measures of inflation, it still needs paying for. Who is going to pay for it? And all the other raises that will follow when the other unions pile in and the rail unions come back for more.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Let's also consider some of the more ridiculous 'Spanish Practices' of the rail unions which Labour totally failed to change (or more likely, didn't even try):
Anyone think that these are OK in a modern workplace?
Quote of some examples in case it's paywalled:
"Last year it was revealed that one of these costly working practices includes the right to paid time off for medical checks if staff use microwaves.
The policy, dating from the 1980s, and first reported by The Sun, read: “All staff working with microwave ovens shall be permitted to take time off from work, with pay, for a medical check of any effects on them from the microwave ovens.”
Another practice consists of re-starting scheduled breaks whenever passing bosses greet staff on their downtime.
“Imagine your line manager stopping to say ‘hello’ when you are on a formal break,” said Huw Merriman, the former rail minister, in 2022. “In the office or on-site, that’s a positive sign of teamwork. Ludicrously, in the rail industry the rule book decrees that the break has to restart from the beginning.”
The Telegraph revealed in the same year that teams of nine people were being sent to jobs such as changing a plug socket.
An industry source explained at the time: “Let’s imagine you want to change a single socket to a double in your kitchen. Potentially you’d need an electrician, a tiler and a plumber as your dishwasher waste pipe will need adjusting too.
“In Network Rail we can’t roster individuals, only teams and we can’t multi-skill those teams so we’d need to send a team of three electricians, three tilers and three plumbers – nine people to do a job one person could do.”
Yet another one of the pejoratively-named Spanish practices includes rail staff being paid for walking to and from their trains.
Staff moving from offices or mess rooms to trains insist on being paid for the time it takes to walk between rest area and place of work.
Unions have faced accusations that these “walking allowances”, which in some cases were reportedly set at 12 minutes for journeys by foot that would take 60 seconds, squander millions of pounds every year by paying wages to people for time when they are not actually working. "
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You do understand this is a three year deal - for 2022 5%, 2023 4.75% and 2024 4.5%?
Which of those is outrageous? One is a bit low, and the latest one is a bit high, which is the way to structure it if you're paying.
It's been a long dispute.
0 -
You seem to be basing your assumption that their situation warrants a pay rise. A low skilled job working 4 days a week paying an average of £60k a year is pretty damn good going even before the pay rise. I could understand it if they were underpaid or on the breadline as a result of inflation, but that pretty clearly isn't the case. Inflation was just bringing their pay level back towards a reasonable rate.
Do you think that all workers should get this sort of pay rise, regardless of what they currently get paid?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If it's such a cushty job, please go become a train driver. At least it would keep you off here during the working day!
0 -
Pretty much.
0 -
Is your argument that inflation should be used as a tool to reduce their effective salary to a level you deem acceptable? If so, what is that level? I don't know much about driving trains but I suspect it isn't as low skilled as you are suggesting.
Working practices in the industry definitely need reviewing though, for me that is where Labour need to be trying to put pressure on the Unions and I would hope that getting the pay dispute resolved will allow that to at least start being discussed. Refusing to do any any negotiating certainly wasn't a good way to open up the discussion.
0 -
Because the pay deal was for previous years. I appreciate it's difficult to admit that the deal is reasonable 🙂
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not a tool, but you need to look at what people's pay is compared to a market rate when deciding whether to dash out pay rises.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Anyhow, here is the next lot of notoriously underpaid workers demanding a pay hike. The floodgates are starting to open now.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Your reply says it all really.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Thanks.
Sure, if you think people should be paid less, then give a below inflation pay rise. If you don't, then at least keeping in line with inflation should be the default. This deal doesn't even do that, so it seems fine.
The numbers sound high on an instinctive level, but that's mainly because I'm old and everything sounds expensive when your baseline was set in the 1990s.
0 -
But that is exactly what hasn't happened. There needs to be consideration of the market rate, of affordability, potential knock on consequences (other groups demanding double digit rises as mentioned above) and the economic and fiscal consequences.
We only have to look back at the 70's to see that the current course of action will not end well.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What is the market rate for train drivers?
0 -
It's almost as if you've no idea what the market rate or level of training is for train drivers.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Teachers got 5%, 6.5% and 5.5% for the same years. the first two under the Conservatives and the last as recommended by the same body that the Conservatives accepted previously. Was that OK or is it only when it can be reported as one big number that you are outraged?
0 -
Trolling, trolling, trolling……
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Are you going to accuse GPs of being low-skilled, too?😆
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
-
Nope. Are you claiming that they are hard up and in need of another payrise?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
We've done this already. As you said: it's market rate that is important and when there's a supply shortage that goes up.
Have to say it feels a bit weird that you are now the champion of state control of markets.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Just because we have a monopsonistic market for healthcare labour in the UK, does not mean it is a monopsonistic market globally, and bright people who can be doctors are often internationally mobile, so we are ultimately competing for talent globally.
0 -
Where do I say that?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ever heard of the private healthcare sector?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
