Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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That is sort of my point with the US, the money obviously pays for things but it feels like it isn't always to the wider benefit but I guess that's for the citizens to determine at the ballot box.
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I mean, the numbers quoted are gross numbers, so they can decide what they want to do with it. They chose to keep it and not fund this stuff.
I don't think there is an argument that their lower taxes mean they are more productive - the overall tax take in the richest states is not that different to Europe, and ultimately you're still going to have to pay for services like health, whether it's via tax or directly to your insurer.
The US healthcare system is not to be copied, but again, I don't think they're earning massively more because of it - in fact, I'd argue, they'd be doing *even better* if they had a better system.
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It is a big difference at the top end much less so for most. The top 2-3% really takes off. Seemed to me to be more comparable for the majority.
And you still don't get the size of the undocumented economy.
These differences skew the figs from both ends, I would guess.
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It wouldn't be a contribution from you to discuss the measuring of the data because you don't like the conclusions derived from them :)
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You are the stats guy. I'm fairly.configent about the upper end. Less so about the undocumented economy. By its nature the closest you can get is 6-12% for the US. Can't find any for European countries, but I am on a conference call.....
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I recall a passage in one of Bill Bryson's books. Notes From a Small Island maybe. (Probs 20 years since I read it.) It covered the differences when obliged to engage in "small talk" with a stranger in the US vs England e.g. on public transport.
Bill described how in England it took him a long time to master the art of subtly striking up conversation, avoiding too much eye contact early on, without actually saying anything of significance. He contrasted this with the US where it was perfectly acceptable, expected even, to initiate conversation with a cheerful, for example:
"Hi. My name is Bryson. I cleared a quarter of a mill last year. How much did you make?"
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It's an interesting stat but of no real relevance that without London the UK would be poorer, because London is part of the UK. Without oxygen in the atmosphere we'd all be dead within 4 minutes.
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Bit more balance here. I've seen a couple of versions of this, including on Linkedin, where the comment page is interesting.
Other than sector specific outliers of the type RC is prone to make, the most interesting was the OECD purchasing power index, which brings the majority in the UK much much closer. Housing wasn't mentioned, but I don't think that's a rosy story in the US either.
The wage disparity thing confirms what I've been saying about the bottom end of the scale.
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I dunno, you see similar differences between North and South in the UK...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So why don't they have world leading public services and social security?
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Must admit I am rather left wondering what the point of all this is. They have all this extra money, yet are still politically in a complete mess and a good half of the country aren't happy or even accepting of the current state of affairs.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Meanwhile we are the same minus the extra money.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
4 weeks extra paid leave would seem like a non-trivial difference. to working conditions.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We're probably more likely to do something about it at the ballot box though. Maybe Stevo will be proven right and it will make things even worse or maybe it will help start an improvement but at least we should get a chance to find out. The Yanks' only alternative to what they've currently got looks likely to be a return to Trump!
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I mean, that's what a lot of politics is right. How to share it all.
They'd rather have world class healthcare for those who can afford it and not those who can't. Europeans disagree.
(I'll say this, I've broken bones in the US and in the UK and I was blown away by the quality of the care in the US)
They also don't like having a social security safety net, and I have read some evidence that in Greece that has bumped up productivity as you have to work to get anything, but clearly there are problems with that approach.
It's just different choices on how to split the pie.
Genuinely, the reaction that comment got about yanks earning more on here was quite something.
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Indeed. I was looking, and someone in the 98th percentile here would be in the 95th in the US.
Median is $50k there, about $38k here. With cost of living, health and education thrown in I doubt there's all that much difference.
The multiplier seems to go from about 1.3 at median to about 1.6 at the 95th percentile. I think it swings the other way at the lower percentiles, i.e. to favour the UK.
So looks to me that the UK has a higher, narrower wage distribution.
Edit - and the average salary in the US is nearly $70k, whereas ours is only about $41k, which shows you just how much the top 1 or 2 % skew the data in each case.
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For me it wasn't the comment about them earning more, it was the particular example you used to 'prove' it. I'd still love to know why a tiny, and presumably relatively safe, police department is apparently offering double the national average salary? I'm also not sure why you decided to post such an extreme example to make your point. My suspicion is that no-one is joining the BART police on a basic starting salary that matches that advert and that there is a load of small print.
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He posted something about DHL drivers earning $100k last time.
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But does that mean that all delivery drivers earn $170k and by extension lots of other unskilled workers?
Because the median is still $50k.
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That earnings are too small a part of the picture to be taken in isolation is the reason for the reaction.
Show me disposable income at the end of the month and I'll pay attention.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I've broken bones in the UK and been impressed by the standard of care. But my rehab would have maxed out most US insurance policies and right now I'd walk with more of a limp, or have needed to spend several tens of thousand on physio and a follow up operation.
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UK care quality is inversely correlated to the severity of the problem.
Ive never seen care quite like in the NICU but it got downright degrading by the time we got to the feeding ward.
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You mean correlated.
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I don't recall anyone inciting a minor armed revolt because they didn't win the last election, so no, we are not the same. There's no meaningful dispute of the last election result.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yeah. Inversely correlated to your own situation.
Bit disappointed you went all Brexity and “go live there” I have go say, FA
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Take it as an alternative way to say stop banging on.
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We're you insured when you broke a bone in the US? What would have happened if you weren't?
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