Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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That's more than normal. Normal is London so England is done, Edinburgh so Scotland is done, and on to Paris for France...
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
TBH it's not clear to me that the things that make America a bit crap are the things that make it wealthier and more productive. After all, these issues existed prior to 2008, and western Europe (apparently) kept up in the productivity stakes.
I'm also not sure "progressive" policies are necessarily the drain on productivity we immediately conclude. After all, the state generally regarded as incredibly progressive is the 4th most productive.
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Quite strange that it is us who have never earned enough to pay 40% tax are the ones retiring early. 😉
The rest of you better get back to work and productivity tomorrow. No time to be spent on here! 🤣
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
glad you agree that your assertion that it's the fault of liberal/progressives was incorrect
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
I hate you all.
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Those distances are also about the same as the morning commute. Or if they live rurally, to the nearest Costco.
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I think you misunderstood.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Maybe, but I'm guessing you don't understand what the rest of us are saying.
I don't know if you ever watched Bruce Parry's series 'Tribe', in which he stayed a few weeks with various tribes in far-flung places. I'm sure that a lot of it was dressed up for TV, but my abiding memory is that despite all the lack of most things we take for granted (including, I suspect, longevity), they spent most of their social time singing, dancing, eating, and above all, laughing. Dancing and laughing, despite everything they didn't have. How do you measure that, in $s?
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That is neither what you were saying, nor what the rest of us were disagreeing with.
All you were saying was the US is rich and we aren't so it's shit. Lacking a coherent argument, you've latched onto the first post that doesn't openly counter your doom mongering. And now you are pretending that was your point all along.
Let me know if I've missed anything.
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So you were saying growing your economy / increasing personal wealth doesn’t make the country any better? If that’s not what your saying why haven’t things in the US improved compared to other countries?
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That's actually much like my current employer.
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Interesting reading this same debate elsewhere, but without people getting wound up because it's Rick bringing it up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HENRYUK/s/s7MajnCHeG
The answer to your question are the replies. Brits will bend over backwards to justify their low wages rather than grow a spine, organise and demand better pay.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Like the doctors, nurses, teachers, train drivers etc, etc...... Unanimous support on here for having spines. 😉
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The guy using someone getting paid £100k in the UK or €130k in Italy for the same job is odd. That’s not really much of a difference, certainly not enough to suggest we’re being screwed in the UK (unless they believe Italians should earn less than us).
I don’t think anyone is denying growth is shite in the UK and that is having a major impact on our quality of public services. The issue I believe we’ve been raising is that simply having growth and higher wages doesn’t make things great, the key is how that wealth is used and the US doesn’t seem like a great example of wealthier country = better.
For my part, I just thought it was a bit stupid to use a job advert for one very small police force with an advertised salary more than double that of the largest US police department as ‘proof’ of how much better things are over there. I suspect there’s a massive list of caveats in the small print.
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Yeah, let's really show them what inflation is. 🙄
I do love the idea that all that's required for a pay rise is 'growing a spine'.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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Unrelated? I think therein lies the rub. Some of us think all of society and the economy are related.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It is strange that you discuss US wage growth and how well the economy is doing, by literally saying "Honestly I don’t think most people understand how much richer America is nowadays."
a) "Move there. Or be quiet." - FA
b) "You obviously admire different things." BTrumpet
c) "Did anyone mention working conditions and annual leave yet?" FA
d) Picture of a load of tends and homeless people
We did get some charts on inequality in the US ( though discussing US inequality in its own terms rather misses the fact their poor are no poorer than in the UK).
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Yeah you won't get any disagreement.
I don't get it. I posted about Americans being richer than most people think and I get a load of stuff about "you don't undersatnd society is more than just making money you gauche tw@t".
Yeah OK, that wasn't really what I was discussing but fill ya boots.
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Some of America is richer. Much richer. Some.
The central problem in the U.S. is the distribution of wealth.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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I'm not denying that the UK is going down the tubes. I'm simply saying the US is not the model to follow as II've witnessed the poor in Mississippi first hand and it was worse than I've seen here. Lies, damned lies and statistics.
We clearly disagree on this point so there is no point going any further.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
What's the point in being a wealthy country if it doesn't benefit society as a whole? I think that's where you've been misunderstanding what everyone has been trying to say.
Apologies for this example, I'm not trying to make it personal, you have said on here many times that you earn well but then complain that you can't afford a house of a suitable size in a location you want and so need to undertake a commute you seem to hate to keep earning at that level. Your chart above with London removed would suggest how poor the rest of the UK is and yet people on here who live elsewhere seem to be able to afford more on lower incomes. I'm sure you'll argue that's because we're all a bunch of oldies who got lucky but I know plenty of people your age and younger who own homes. The point being looking purely at income is too simplistic and to many people 'wealth' means more than that.
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Yeah I don't disagree with it, I just don't see why it's relevant. I wasn't saying how great america was to live in. I was just saying people don't realise how much more they earn. It's abig differnece.
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We realise, RC, not least as you've told us. It's a big difference in many sectors (though not if you're not near the top of the pile). But money doesn't buy happiness, or contentedness: if the rich are anything to go by, it just leads to a wish for even more money. Above a certain point it's just data on a spreadsheet.
One of my theories about SW England average earning being lower than many parts of the country is that people are happy to live here with less disposable income because they are just content to be here. Contentedness tends to kill ambition. You can't put contentedness on a spreadsheet.
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For some who choose to be there that is no doubt true. I think you underestimate how "stuck" some people are though, many just do not have the mobility to think "I'll move to London / the SE / wherever and earn more" even if they wanted to.
There are a lot of things that tie people to the place they live beyond just thinking it's nice or not.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
All that money earned pays for things, including public services and social security. Has to come from somewhere.
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Of course, but the US doesn't have a good record on either. I'd contend (though you will probably disagree) that the two things (US pay levels/structures and disdain for public spending) are interrelated. Generally the wealthiest in the US are those who look on public expenditure of communist/socialist, and so will try to use their leverage to preserve their privileged position and limit social spending.
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