Today's discussion about the news

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

Football pays for the police presence though.
Your point still stands on public safety.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/19/hamas-attack-peace-revenge-border-war

He doesn't say much as he is clearly suffering. Nonetheless, a strong ending.

From this unbearable feeling of pain and distress, I wish to speak about what I believe is my parents’ legacy. People from both sides of the border have good reasons to hate one another. This is being used by those who feed on hate. But this cannot be the only option. My family does not seek revenge. My parents treated people based on their actions, not their affiliation with any group. We are being comforted by people from all walks of life, regardless of their religion, ethnicity, or gender. Close friends among the Bedouin community have also lost loved ones in the attack.

Our shared future is based on the belief that all human beings are equal, and deserving of respect and safety. This is how I was raised and how I am raising my own children. In the long term, and even if it’s very far away, the only real future is that of hope and peace. Please, stop the war.

Now if only enough people on both sides felt that way to drive out the extremists on both sides we would hopefully get progress. I'm sure part of the reasons for the current situation is so those groups can perpetuate the hatred and, therefore, their own position. It needs the ordinary people in both Israel and Palestine to make it clear that isn't what they want and push for more moderate leadership (and for third party countries to stop taking sides).

Pross

briantrumpet said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

Yeah, it would be more helpful if people apologised for hasty faulty reporting using unverified sources, and took more care next time. The trouble is that people want to hear news as quickly as possible, and it's doubly difficult to know what's going on in war, and doubly difficult again when both sides are prone to lying.

It's like a larger scale of the reporting back when those kids in Cardiff got themselves killed on an eBike when being 'chased' by the police. I think your second sentence does get to the heart of the problem.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

An alternative view is that having ordered a hospital to evacuate three times, hit it at least once, bombed the civilians in the neighbourhood so much that they chose to shelter in the hospital against advice, they may have been falsely accused of killing some civilians. It's basically just distraction from all the other war crimes.

As I summarised before they were terrible people for killing 800 people, then the number did not matter and now the fact they did not do it does not matter.

Seems to me they may as well bomb the next hospital as they can not be judged any more harshly

surrey_commuter

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I wonder if this should go in the irony thread.

https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1714695993655013598

Brian, you are a sensible chap and as such I would be very surprised if you did not find the writings of Baddiel and Daniel Finkelstein very informative in understanding the jewish mindset.

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

Daniel Finkelstein is a very good writer and if you do read some of his work you will understand that jews believe that most people don't believe that Jewish Lives Matter and that history tells them that given half a chance their many enemies will carry on trying to wipe them out.

In Russia, Germany , Poland or North London they can not defend themselves but in Israel they can. There they are surrounded by people whose stated aim is to wipe them out and my guess is that they will never relinquish their position of strength which puts their future in their hands

What has this got to do with the point Brian was making?

It is an attempt to put David Baddiel's comment into context.

I think it is very difficult to put yourself into the mindset of a person who grew up with massive holes in their family tree because various people wiped them out because of their religion.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

An alternative view is that having ordered a hospital to evacuate three times, hit it at least once, bombed the civilians in the neighbourhood so much that they chose to shelter in the hospital against advice, they may have been falsely accused of killing some civilians. It's basically just distraction from all the other war crimes.

As I summarised before they were terrible people for killing 800 people, then the number did not matter and now the fact they did not do it does not matter.

Seems to me they may as well bomb the next hospital as they can not be judged any more harshly

Yes, I get it, and you are right. Having bombed the hospital already along with a load of other healthcare facilities, UN schools, safe routes etc. they are going to be judged harshly. That seems reasonable to me.

They will be judged better if they stop bombing and start negotiating, but "it is impossible to negotiate with terrorists" etc.

surrey_commuter

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

Has there been much violence in the UK related to this so far? I genuinely don't know.

there is permanent anti-jewish violence (as there is against other minorities) it just gets worse at times like this.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

In this analogy, do gay people go on a killing spree? It would be much better to focus on somewhere like Northern Ireland for your analogy, but that doesn't work any more.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

An alternative view is that having ordered a hospital to evacuate three times, hit it at least once, bombed the civilians in the neighbourhood so much that they chose to shelter in the hospital against advice, they may have been falsely accused of killing some civilians. It's basically just distraction from all the other war crimes.

As I summarised before they were terrible people for killing 800 people, then the number did not matter and now the fact they did not do it does not matter.

Seems to me they may as well bomb the next hospital as they can not be judged any more harshly

Yes, I get it, and you are right. Having bombed the hospital already along with a load of other healthcare facilities, UN schools, safe routes etc. they are going to be judged harshly. That seems reasonable to me.

They will be judged better if they stop bombing and start negotiating, but "it is impossible to negotiate with terrorists" etc.

Better to negotiate from a position of strength, especially when dealing with people whose stated aim is to wipe you out.

If I was Israeli I would be strengthening my defences as I would trust nobody other than a jewish state to provide my security.

If I was living in Gaza I would not vote for a bunch of loons who brought that sh1t down upon me.

First.Aspect

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

Really?

First.Aspect

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I wonder if this should go in the irony thread.

https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1714695993655013598

Brian, you are a sensible chap and as such I would be very surprised if you did not find the writings of Baddiel and Daniel Finkelstein very informative in understanding the jewish mindset.

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

Daniel Finkelstein is a very good writer and if you do read some of his work you will understand that jews believe that most people don't believe that Jewish Lives Matter and that history tells them that given half a chance their many enemies will carry on trying to wipe them out.

In Russia, Germany , Poland or North London they can not defend themselves but in Israel they can. There they are surrounded by people whose stated aim is to wipe them out and my guess is that they will never relinquish their position of strength which puts their future in their hands

What has this got to do with the point Brian was making?

It is an attempt to put David Baddiel's comment into context.

I think it is very difficult to put yourself into the mindset of a person who grew up with massive holes in their family tree because various people wiped them out because of their religion.

Probably you should give people credit for knowing this already.

Is criticising the Israeli government a topic that's off limits for satire?

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

An alternative view is that having ordered a hospital to evacuate three times, hit it at least once, bombed the civilians in the neighbourhood so much that they chose to shelter in the hospital against advice, they may have been falsely accused of killing some civilians. It's basically just distraction from all the other war crimes.

As I summarised before they were terrible people for killing 800 people, then the number did not matter and now the fact they did not do it does not matter.

Seems to me they may as well bomb the next hospital as they can not be judged any more harshly

Yes, I get it, and you are right. Having bombed the hospital already along with a load of other healthcare facilities, UN schools, safe routes etc. they are going to be judged harshly. That seems reasonable to me.

They will be judged better if they stop bombing and start negotiating, but "it is impossible to negotiate with terrorists" etc.

Better to negotiate from a position of strength, especially when dealing with people whose stated aim is to wipe you out.

If I was Israeli I would be strengthening my defences as I would trust nobody other than a jewish state to provide my security.

If I was living in Gaza I would not vote for a bunch of loons who brought that censored down upon me.

This just tells me that you have understood the Israeli position, but have failed terribly to understand the other side.

DeVlaeminck

There are plenty of Israelis who would happily wipe the Palestinians out. I watched a us pro Israeli demo on youtube where they were saying just that.

In fact by taking the West Bank and Jerusalem bit by bit Israel are effectively erasing Palestine from the map. How are they any better than Hamas ? Don't forget before they had tanks and planes the zionist movement did use terrorist tactics.

Both sides need to come to the table and if they wont the leadership on both sides shares guilt.

wallace_and_gromit

surrey_commuter said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

Has there been much violence in the UK related to this so far? I genuinely don't know.

there is permanent anti-jewish violence (as there is against other minorities) it just gets worse at times like this.

I'm not saying / implying it hasn't by asking this question, but has there actually been an increase in violence in the UK? (As opposed to scuffles with the Rozzers at demonstrations.) I genuinely don't know as I live a very sheltered life in rural North Yorkshire.

First.Aspect

wallace_and_gromit said:

surrey_commuter said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

Has there been much violence in the UK related to this so far? I genuinely don't know.

there is permanent anti-jewish violence (as there is against other minorities) it just gets worse at times like this.

I'm not saying / implying it hasn't by asking this question, but has there actually been an increase in violence in the UK? (As opposed to scuffles with the Rozzers at demonstrations.) I genuinely don't know as I live a very sheltered life in rural North Yorkshire.

There has in the last couple of weeks, yes.

surrey_commuter

DeVlaeminck said:

There are plenty of Israelis who would happily wipe the Palestinians out. I watched a us pro Israeli demo on youtube where they were saying just that.

In fact by taking the West Bank and Jerusalem bit by bit Israel are effectively erasing Palestine from the map. How are they any better than Hamas ? Don't forget before they had tanks and planes the zionist movement did use terrorist tactics.

Both sides need to come to the table and if they wont the leadership on both sides shares guilt.

there is a big difference between taking land and genocide

surrey_commuter

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

Really?

is that a genuine question or you disagree?

even the FA apologisedfor not lighting up the arch at Wembley

wallace_and_gromit

First.Aspect said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

surrey_commuter said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

Has there been much violence in the UK related to this so far? I genuinely don't know.

there is permanent anti-jewish violence (as there is against other minorities) it just gets worse at times like this.

I'm not saying / implying it hasn't by asking this question, but has there actually been an increase in violence in the UK? (As opposed to scuffles with the Rozzers at demonstrations.) I genuinely don't know as I live a very sheltered life in rural North Yorkshire.

There has in the last couple of weeks, yes.

Thanks. That's shocking tbh. Talking sh*te on Twitter is one thing. Attacking someone or their property in the UK that is clearly unrelated to what's happening in the Middle East demonstrates a mind set that I simply do not understand. I'll take a wild punt that those attacked were alone or in small groups, or physically frail, whilst the attackers were larger groups of young, physically fit men.

First.Aspect

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

Really?

is that a genuine question or you disagree?

even the FA apologisedfor not lighting up the arch at Wembley

Perhaps I'm oblivious, but the Jewish community seems to me to have a fairly strong and well respected voice in the UK.

That's not to say there isn't both casual and more active discrimination as well of course. When I grew up the word "Jew" was used as an almost acceptable pejorative. I don't suppose the dial has shifted all that much.

DeVlaeminck

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

There are plenty of Israelis who would happily wipe the Palestinians out. I watched a us pro Israeli demo on youtube where they were saying just that.

In fact by taking the West Bank and Jerusalem bit by bit Israel are effectively erasing Palestine from the map. How are they any better than Hamas ? Don't forget before they had tanks and planes the zionist movement did use terrorist tactics.

Both sides need to come to the table and if they wont the leadership on both sides shares guilt.

there is a big difference between taking land and genocide

If you look at death counts over the last month or decades it's the Palestinians who are being killed in disproportionate numbers.

I'm sure even those who want a Palestine from river to sea would accept the Jews just leaving so not really any different to tne Israeli settlers.

I'm not a Hamas apologist but are Israel actually morally less culpable? I just don't see how they can be painted as the good guys in this. I'm not saying the whole West Bank can be handed over to Palestinian control right now because i understand Israel's security concerns but they can maintain a security presence without permanently making the Oslo accord impossible.

rick_chasey

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

DeVlaeminck said:

There are plenty of Israelis who would happily wipe the Palestinians out. I watched a us pro Israeli demo on youtube where they were saying just that.

In fact by taking the West Bank and Jerusalem bit by bit Israel are effectively erasing Palestine from the map. How are they any better than Hamas ? Don't forget before they had tanks and planes the zionist movement did use terrorist tactics.

Both sides need to come to the table and if they wont the leadership on both sides shares guilt.

there is a big difference between taking land and genocide

If you look at death counts over the last month or decades it's the Palestinians who are being killed in disproportionate numbers.

I'm sure even those who want a Palestine from river to sea would accept the Jews just leaving so not really any different to tne Israeli settlers.

I'm not a Hamas apologist but are Israel actually morally less culpable? I just don't see how they can be painted as the good guys in this. I'm not saying the whole West Bank can be handed over to Palestinian control right now because i understand Israel's security concerns but they can maintain a security presence without permanently making the Oslo accord impossible.

In the same way I think we all agree that Londoners didn't deserve to be bombed on the tube or bus for Britain's role in Iraq/Northern Ireland, I don't think you can blame Isarelies for Hamas going around massacring people and launching rockets into cities.

Could both sides do more to de-escalate? Yes.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

An alternative view is that having ordered a hospital to evacuate three times, hit it at least once, bombed the civilians in the neighbourhood so much that they chose to shelter in the hospital against advice, they may have been falsely accused of killing some civilians. It's basically just distraction from all the other war crimes.

As I summarised before they were terrible people for killing 800 people, then the number did not matter and now the fact they did not do it does not matter.

Seems to me they may as well bomb the next hospital as they can not be judged any more harshly

Yes, I get it, and you are right. Having bombed the hospital already along with a load of other healthcare facilities, UN schools, safe routes etc. they are going to be judged harshly. That seems reasonable to me.

They will be judged better if they stop bombing and start negotiating, but "it is impossible to negotiate with terrorists" etc.

Better to negotiate from a position of strength, especially when dealing with people whose stated aim is to wipe you out.

If I was Israeli I would be strengthening my defences as I would trust nobody other than a jewish state to provide my security.

If I was living in Gaza I would not vote for a bunch of loons who brought that censored down upon me.

The aim of wiping out the other side is not limited to Islamic fundamentalists. I stumbled across a collection of Israeli hard right political tweets that had assembled earlier this week by a Jewish commentator. I don't think they are any more representative than the stuff coming out of Hamas but they were every bit as bloodthirsty. Casually advocating wiping Gaza from the map and it not mattering how many Palestinians died in the process. Not the slightest interest in peace or any form of reconciliation.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

So in summary, the Israeli's were terrible people for bombing a hospital and killing 800 people.

Now with the evidence suggesting 800 deaths was exaggerated it does not matter what the total number is.

Further evidence suggests it was not the Israelis but that does not matter because they would have done it anyway.

An alternative view is that having ordered a hospital to evacuate three times, hit it at least once, bombed the civilians in the neighbourhood so much that they chose to shelter in the hospital against advice, they may have been falsely accused of killing some civilians. It's basically just distraction from all the other war crimes.

As I summarised before they were terrible people for killing 800 people, then the number did not matter and now the fact they did not do it does not matter.

Seems to me they may as well bomb the next hospital as they can not be judged any more harshly

Yes, I get it, and you are right. Having bombed the hospital already along with a load of other healthcare facilities, UN schools, safe routes etc. they are going to be judged harshly. That seems reasonable to me.

They will be judged better if they stop bombing and start negotiating, but "it is impossible to negotiate with terrorists" etc.

Better to negotiate from a position of strength, especially when dealing with people whose stated aim is to wipe you out.

If I was Israeli I would be strengthening my defences as I would trust nobody other than a jewish state to provide my security.

If I was living in Gaza I would not vote for a bunch of loons who brought that censored down upon me.

The aim of wiping out the other side is not limited to Islamic fundamentalists. I stumbled across a collection of Israeli hard right political tweets that had assembled earlier this week by a Jewish commentator. I don't think they are any more representative than the stuff coming out of Hamas but they were every bit as bloodthirsty. Casually advocating wiping Gaza from the map and it not mattering how many Palestinians died in the process. Not the slightest interest in peace or any form of reconciliation.

Some of them are in the Israeli government. You don't need to look hard to find the expression "The only good Arab is a dead Arab"

carbonclem

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

Really?

is that a genuine question or you disagree?

even the FA apologisedfor not lighting up the arch at Wembley

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

This is really what the UK ought to be focused on. Absolutely vital they stamp out any attempt to bring the war over here and protect all citizens from this.

Why on earth can't the police do this? They have enough manpower to protect football fans from themselves but not school kids. F*cking joke.

and now you start to see the world like a jew.

Some lives matter more than others and for whatever reason jews come way down the list of communities that people care about.

Imagine if nutters had attacked a gay pride event killing hundreds of people, now imagine people started holding events to celebrate the killings and glorify the killers.

How do we think the police would have reacted?

Really?

is that a genuine question or you disagree?

even the FA apologisedfor not lighting up the arch at Wembley

They explained but there was no apology.

TheBigBean

It seems to be raining in Scotland.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

It seems to be raining in Scotland.

Thank you for caring.

shirley_basso

I am going to Aberdeenshire on Saturday. Hoping the Don doesn't flood too badly or I can't get into the house.

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

I wonder if this should go in the irony thread.

https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1714695993655013598

Brian, you are a sensible chap and as such I would be very surprised if you did not find the writings of Baddiel and Daniel Finkelstein very informative in understanding the jewish mindset.

I sat next to a jewish guy at work who is on a security rota for his daughter's nursery as an adult male presence could prevent an attack on the mothers and kids.

Daniel Finkelstein is a very good writer and if you do read some of his work you will understand that jews believe that most people don't believe that Jewish Lives Matter and that history tells them that given half a chance their many enemies will carry on trying to wipe them out.

In Russia, Germany , Poland or North London they can not defend themselves but in Israel they can. There they are surrounded by people whose stated aim is to wipe them out and my guess is that they will never relinquish their position of strength which puts their future in their hands

What has this got to do with the point Brian was making?

It is an attempt to put David Baddiel's comment into context.

I think it is very difficult to put yourself into the mindset of a person who grew up with massive holes in their family tree because various people wiped them out because of their religion.

Probably you should give people credit for knowing this already.

Is criticising the Israeli government a topic that's off limits for satire?

Precisely that, and though I do think Baddiel is worth reading for a viewpoint I should understand better, that he accuses PE of satirising Jews when they specifically reference the Israeli state suggests why PE printed this cover in the first place. That's why I suggested it could go in the irony thread.

briantrumpet

...