Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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Just to re-emphasise the point, Esther Ghey was not in the gallery when Sunak made his jibe. Starmer mislead the house by stating that she was! And one wonders why he said she was there. It certainly wasn't because he saw her there, so it must have been because he assumed she would be there and he made reference to her for his own political gain. Though in his defence, pretty much everything said during PMQs is showboating of some form or another.
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Happy to help - so now you do know that Starmer thought she was in the gallery, and that he had mentioned her presence in the building immediately before Sunak's joke.
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The whole thing is so f***ing stupid. The idea that we can find the money for Covid or even a brief energy crisis, but somehow climate change mitigation is some sort of optional extra is just ridiculous.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Indeed. Thanks. Raises more questions about Starmer (*) and his MPs on Twitter (**) tbh, given that Sunak's comment was crass (but not transphobic) regardless of her location.
(*) I read earlier today that by convention, no reference is made to people in the gallery from the floor of the Commons. Don't know if this is true. Googling just throws up lots of references to what visitors can't do.
(**) Multiple references to "How could Sunak say such a thing in front of her Mother?" (or equivalent) on said platform this morning.
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yep, if they now think it's unaffordable, the honest approach clearly is to say, "sorry can't do it after all"
rather than keep it until elected, then renege
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
It's not really a question of affordability. The alternative is much more expensive and not in some far off future, either.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Why does it raise more questions about Starmer? He mentioned it before Sunak had even started his "answer". What it says is that Starmer was mistaken, and Sunak is a hopeless politician, unable to adjust from his pre-planned line under any circumstances. Look at his interviews, he just repeats the same phrase over and over, regardless of the topic of the question.
PMQs is an absolutely tawdry spectacle all round. It's worth remembering that the question Starmer actually asked was about NHS waiting lists.
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It's a stretch to say he misled the house. He may have thought she was there. However, I do think that he was wrong to link a crass jibe aimed at him and bring Brianna's name into it. Sunak's refusal to apologise is pretty typical, it would have been easy to say 'it was a jibe at Labour policy but given the situation I can see it may have caused offence and I apologise'. Why is it politicians find it so hard to say sorry?
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Whether you are unsure or not isn't relevant it's an issue which Starmer is vulnerable on. See that Sunak has refused to apologise - Tory strategists must agree that even timed as poorly as it was the joke isn't a vote loser.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I'm still staggered by the amount of people who think climate change is scaremongering and, even more, the politicians that will pander to them rather than looking to address what is the single biggest issue for the world despite all the other ongoing problems around the globe. Even Johnson understood this and seemed to actually be trying to gt things moving. The current trend is to lump it all in with 'wokeism' and that it only matters to a small group of weirdo socialists and academics.
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The timing of Starmer's announcement re EG's presence in the gallery doesn't really change anything about one's judgement of Sunak, except maybe changing the assessment of crassness in his statement from 7/10 to 8/10.
OTOH, the fact that Starmer said something that isn't true, raises the question of why he claimed EG was in the gallery. The least unlikely answer is that he expected her to be there and was using her expected presence as part of a pre-planned political move in PMQ rather than anything to do with compassion for the family.
The continued reference by Starmer's minions to EG's presence also raises the question as to whether said minions are exceptionally stupid (can't be ruled out) or are following a tactical campaign at Starmer's behest to throw as much mud as possible and hope it sticks, despite the claim not being true. And it seems to be working!
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Maybe he didn't mislead the House (I think there has to be intent in the context of MPs) but it's rarely wise to put yourself in the position of needing to deflect charges of malice by reference to your own incompetence (in this case assuming EG was in the gallery as expected rather than confirming that she was first).
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All feels a bit thin W&G
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
She was in parliament to have a meeting with Starmer, so it was a reasonable expectation given he probably knew her planned itinerary, apparently she was in the public gallery shortly after the exchange took place. So whilst he expected her to be there, he obviously didn't go and check immediately before saying it. Calling it incompetence is a bit of a stretch.
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I see Shortfall is back and liking any comments not following the 'woke' line.
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I think you are giving those strategists way too much credit.
The so-called equalities minister joined in straight away with a 'soz someone got killed, but let's keep banging on'. It's clear they think trans issues are just some epic bantz to slag off Labour and f*** the consequences.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You could try watching it.
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Also, whoever writes Sunak's jokes doesn't understand what an each way bet is.
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yep
but if they've not got the money because the brexiter government amassed debt, damaged confidence and reduced growth, it'd mean cutting elsewhere and/or raising tax rates
converting cuts into real extra billions to be used elsewhere is a slow process, raising taxes is likely to further damage growth
tbh i'm also sceptical about simply pumping 28 billion/year into 'green stuff', afaik there's not been a full breakdown of where it goes, it seems ripe for waste, fraud and exploitation, successive governments don't have a good record
imo better to be honest and focus on measures to generate real growth, restore freedom of movement to cut business costs and boost exports, give productive tax breaks for private investment in capex for green infrastructure/innovation, plus umpteen other things i can't think of that might be even better
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Fact-checking feels like a fairly basic requirement from a man hoping to become PM. At the very least, you give your opposition less ammo if you don't make untrue claims. Maybe my standards are too high. I'm still going to vote for him though, albeit simply as the least bad choice.
Not often I agree with Kevin McGuire, but if a one-eyed leftie b*llocks journalist knows the value of fact-checking then surely a prospective PM should too.
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What do you think I've missed?
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Can you see a difference between an on the spot response in PMQs (which I agree is a consistent shit show on both sides) and a planned visit for some publicity?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
You can usually tell how well or not Sunak is doing at PMQs by how close Penny Mordant sits next to him and the expression on her face. That is her shoulder on the left of the picture taken yesterday 😁
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Don't think Starmer's comment about Esther Ghey being in the gallery was "on the spot". It was clearly pre-planned on the assumption she was going to be there.
Still at least the PM and his likely replacement are both cr*p at fact-checking, so in political terms, the issue is somewhat neutralised.
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I think you're squinting pretty hard to equate this stuff.
What got you riled up about this?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Genuine question, what difference does it make whether she was there or not?
PMQs are on the public record so anything distastefully said is distasteful regardless of attendance.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
- Labour has downgraded its Warm Homes Plan to insulate 19 million homes over a decade, instead it will cover up to 5 million homes over five years. Previously the plan had been capped at £6bn a year – now its £6.6bn over five years on top of the government's current commitments.
This seems so stupid
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Oh FFS!
There is plenty of information on where energy is wasted across the economy. There is also plenty of information available on how to remedy the various deficiencies.
We can afford to hand out money for people to heat their homes but not spend less to fix their homes so they essentially don't need heating?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
