Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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Steady on. Next you'll be suggesting that negotiations on a long term future might be better than killing either other.bikes_and_dogs said:The element of goodwill shown by both sides in negotiating the hostage release deal in the Gaza conflict is surely a positive sign. Compromise should not be viewed as a betrayal, particularly if it leads to the greater good.
Further to the castigation of Qatar during the staging of the football World Cup in 2022, I can't help but admire their role in helping to broker the hostage deal.0 -
They're literally doing a child prisoner swap. No one comes out smelling of roses from that particular as there hasn't been any due process for either lot.rick_chasey said:
As much goodwill as you get for taking hostages to begin with.bikes_and_dogs said:The element of goodwill shown by both sides in negotiating the hostage release deal in the Gaza conflict is surely a positive sign. Compromise should not be viewed as a betrayal, particularly if it leads to the greater good.
Further to the castigation of Qatar during the staging of the football World Cup in 2022, I can't help but admire their role in helping to broker the hostage deal.0 -
Exactly.TheBigBean said:
They're literally doing a child prisoner swap. No one comes out smelling of roses from that particular as there hasn't been any due process for either lot.rick_chasey said:
As much goodwill as you get for taking hostages to begin with.bikes_and_dogs said:The element of goodwill shown by both sides in negotiating the hostage release deal in the Gaza conflict is surely a positive sign. Compromise should not be viewed as a betrayal, particularly if it leads to the greater good.
Further to the castigation of Qatar during the staging of the football World Cup in 2022, I can't help but admire their role in helping to broker the hostage deal.0 -
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23% of the vote. Basically a really really really anti immigration party, but really just a straight up Islamophobic party.rick_chasey said:Wilder’s party PVV biggest in Holland today. Awful
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I cant read the full article but isn't that initial quote clearly true of all wars; it is safer for us to nuke them from orbit, but it will kill a lot of innocent civilians?
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So Hamas have the most thorough, complex and sophisticated tunnel system ever seen in warfare (according to the economist), and that will soon be the main battlefield, at least ,if they have any say over the matter.monkimark said:I cant read the full article but isn't that initial quote clearly true of all wars; it is safer for us to nuke them from orbit, but it will kill a lot of innocent civilians?
So it 's not just the case of "oh they have some tunnels" > the tunnels are the main way Hamas operate. If you are committed to destroying hamas, the reality is you'll have to destroy the tunnels. That's fine, but in keeping with Hamas tactics, they've put them through the most populated and sensitive parts of gaza.0 -
Given the tunnels run under the city, blowing them up may be an issue for any above ground structures, but might there be the option to flood the tunnels?0
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rick_chasey said:
23% of the vote. Basically a really really really anti immigration party, but really just a straight up Islamophobic party.rick_chasey said:Wilder’s party PVV biggest in Holland today. Awful
If they only get 35 of the 150 seats, is there enough revulsion amongst the others to prevent him getting his hands on the levers of government?
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I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
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surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.0 -
There's even a range of view from relatives of the victims of the Hamas attack.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.0 -
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording0 -
You can convert to Judaism.surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording
Ah, OK. I know I'm treading on eggshells, and trying not to cause unintentional offence. From his wikipedia entry (he's a prominent consitutional lawyer in the US), it say that both his parents were Jewish, so I assume he'd classify himself as the same, but it doesn't specify one way or the other, hence the phrase I used.0 -
rjsterry said:
You can convert to Judaism.surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording
Equally, it can be renounced. I don't think Tribe has done that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Judaism0 -
Must admit I'm a bit stumped on this too. I'm wondering if support for the ECHR and tolerance towards asylum-seekers would be deemed as un-British now...
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That's controversial. It is supposed to be passed down through the mother. There was a case in London where a Jewish child with a Jewish father was refused entry to a Jewish school on account of the lack of a Jewish mother. It became a battle of the UK state (you can convert to a religion) against the Rabbi (you can't).rjsterry said:
You can convert to Judaism.surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording
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It's not generally controversial. There are some rabbis who don't encourage it but there are recognised processes for different denominations.TheBigBean said:
That's controversial. It is supposed to be passed down through the mother. There was a case in London where a Jewish child with a Jewish father was refused entry to a Jewish school on account of the lack of a Jewish mother. It became a battle of the UK state (you can convert to a religion) against the Rabbi (you can't).rjsterry said:
You can convert to Judaism.surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording
Of course if you are the kind of idiot throwing around antisemitic abuse details don't matter.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Would love to see someone tear apart this 'British values' nonsense. Always used as a way to attack someone else for not having them; with the bonus that they can be whatever you want to win your argument.briantrumpet said:Must admit I'm a bit stumped on this too. I'm wondering if support for the ECHR and tolerance towards asylum-seekers would be deemed as un-British now...
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Who is that aimed at?rjsterry said:
It's not generally controversial. There are some rabbis who don't encourage it but there are recognised processes for different denominations.TheBigBean said:
That's controversial. It is supposed to be passed down through the mother. There was a case in London where a Jewish child with a Jewish father was refused entry to a Jewish school on account of the lack of a Jewish mother. It became a battle of the UK state (you can convert to a religion) against the Rabbi (you can't).rjsterry said:
You can convert to Judaism.surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording
Of course if you are the kind of idiot throwing around antisemitic abuse details don't matter.0 -
Sorry, should have clarified. Nobody here.TheBigBean said:
Who is that aimed at?rjsterry said:
It's not generally controversial. There are some rabbis who don't encourage it but there are recognised processes for different denominations.TheBigBean said:
That's controversial. It is supposed to be passed down through the mother. There was a case in London where a Jewish child with a Jewish father was refused entry to a Jewish school on account of the lack of a Jewish mother. It became a battle of the UK state (you can convert to a religion) against the Rabbi (you can't).rjsterry said:
You can convert to Judaism.surrey_commuter said:
It was actually a genuine question.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
I have never seen the term "Jewish family" what is the significance?briantrumpet said:Tribe is from a Jewish family.
OK, 'family of Jews', if you prefer.
The context was that there is a range of opinions on the conflict from Jewish people, including ones who recognise that Netanyahu's & the IDF's actions should be challenged, despite the barbarity of Hamas's provocation.
My understanding is that you are born jewish so thought there was a reason behind the specific wording
Of course if you are the kind of idiot throwing around antisemitic abuse details don't matter.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Director of al-Shifa hospital along with some doctors have been detained. Presumably hoping that they will be able to identify the missing command centre under torture. Also a bit of punishment for talking to the press. Feels like a new low.
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I'm British and have values, therefore I have British values.rjsterry said:
Would love to see someone tear apart this 'British values' nonsense. Always used as a way to attack someone else for not having them; with the bonus that they can be whatever you want to win your argument.briantrumpet said:Must admit I'm a bit stumped on this too. I'm wondering if support for the ECHR and tolerance towards asylum-seekers would be deemed as un-British now...
That those values can, and likely will, be different to others just shows up the nonsense.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The question is built straightforwardly from the definition of extremism in the glossary of terms (annex A, p. 107) of the Prevent strategy.https://t.co/aWMF3f2maV pic.twitter.com/zFkT5aabFo
— Chris Stokes (@Nisaccom) November 22, 20236.60 We are concerned that insufficient attention has been paid to whether these organisations comprehensively subscribe to what we would consider to be mainstream British values: democracy, rule of law, equality of opportunity, freedom of speech and the rights of all men and women to live free from persecution of any kind. We are also concerned that some funding provided to them for the purposes of Prevent-related work has been used to help people with vulnerabilities which are not connected to radicalisation. Funding for these organisations has already been amended and is still under review. Any future funding will also be contingent upon much tighter monitoring and evaluation.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
pangolin said:
The question is built straightforwardly from the definition of extremism in the glossary of terms (annex A, p. 107) of the Prevent strategy.https://t.co/aWMF3f2maV pic.twitter.com/zFkT5aabFo
— Chris Stokes (@Nisaccom) November 22, 20236.60 We are concerned that insufficient attention has been paid to whether these organisations comprehensively subscribe to what we would consider to be mainstream British values: democracy, rule of law, equality of opportunity, freedom of speech and the rights of all men and women to live free from persecution of any kind. We are also concerned that some funding provided to them for the purposes of Prevent-related work has been used to help people with vulnerabilities which are not connected to radicalisation. Funding for these organisations has already been amended and is still under review. Any future funding will also be contingent upon much tighter monitoring and evaluation.
Which makes the current Tory Party problematic, given their record in the Supreme Court (proroguing, proposed specific and limited lawbreaking etc), and the attitude to the ECHR etc.
Calling these "British Values" seems unfortunate, in the circumstances (especially with the double capitalisation, as if they are something uniquely British). I'm not sure quite what pithy label I'd give them, but it wouldn't be something that sounds jingoistic and exceptionalist.0 -
Have I missed the discussion about net immigration hitting 700,000?
Do we know if this a robust number?
Where have they all gone?
Is it pent up demand or will it continue?
Are they coming for a few years, so emigration will catch up?
If the Govt does not know the answers then how can they plan accordingly?0 -
rick_chasey said:
23% of the vote. Basically a really really really anti immigration party, but really just a straight up Islamophobic party.rick_chasey said:Wilder’s party PVV biggest in Holland today. Awful
How does this strike you, @rick_chasey ? I know very little (aka 'nothing') about Dutch politics, but this seems vaguely balanced.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-dutch-election-europe-must-learn-from-a-lurch-to-the-far-right
It also carries a warning for Starmer, I think:How, then, did the Netherlands reach the point at which a former political pariah finds himself on the threshold of formal power? Mainstream parties on the right, including the VVD, appear to have played into Mr Wilders’ hands by endorsing and attempting to co-opt his anti-migrant agenda. One in four voters ended up choosing the PVV’s full-fat version.
That's to say, if the centre-left tries to placate the far right, at the same time it both semi-legitimises it and risks losing voters to the full-fat version. It's a very wobbly tightrope to stay on for Labour, as they have to woo back those who voted for Brexit because of their belief that foreigners were the cause of UK's ills, but knowing that the UK still needs immigration to stay solvent.0
