2024 Election thread
Comments
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Are you disagreeing that tax has gone up under the current Government and that any 'cuts' will be just undoing some of their rises? I just don't see how they can expect people not to notice the things they are going to fix are things they either broke to start with of have had over a decade to sort out. I'd just like someone I feel comfortable putting a tick next to when the time comes, at present I don't have that and when Labour is the closest I do have it gets a bit worrying.
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The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
In other words, don't keep voting tory if you want change.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I'm just saying that you and Brian have something in common, hence his support for you. There's often been a bit of a centre leftie tag team approach to debates in here with people answering on behalf of others to help them out, but it seems to have extended a bit now 🙂
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Everyone loves a chart.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Or there's this that is even less flattering
Look at the actions not the words.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Already explained upthread that some tax rises were necessary due to costs and economic impact of Covid and the Ukraine war. They have at least started to reverse that and I cannot see any other party doing that if they get in.
But it's good hear Cake Stoppers talking about high taxes like they are a bad thing.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
the most recent tax increases were the result of the panic reaction to the damage to the uk caused by the tories - truss/kwartang - just latest in a long line of tax increases and damage directly caused by this party of corrupt, self-serving, liars, most preceding covid/ukraine
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
At least we can rely on you to be the neutral voice of reason 😉
What do you think any other party would have done on taxes overall in response to Covid and Ukraine?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
One of the good things about this forum is that we are exposed to different points of view.
It is fascinating that you are prepared to believe that taxes are falling.
I remain convinced that 25% of the electorate will echo your thoughts and vote Tory at the next election
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I think some people struggle to look beyond what is happening at a particular time so struggle with the concept that inflation falling simply means prices are still going up quicker than the Government target just at a slower rate than they were before they won't look beyond a cut in NI now and compare how much tax they are paying in comparison to the start of the current term. It's the same going the other way where interest rates went up sharply but were still reasonably low when viewed over a longer time period.
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But if you look at other topics but rarely see (or express) negatives about their chosen side.
If we ignore the more emotive subjects and just look at Pootin it used to surprise me how one eyed people were in their interpretation of events.
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I think you are probably right, but investment in national infrastructure might be a higher priority under labour. Long term, what's the best value?
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To be a bit more precise, they have implemented some tax cuts, the most recent on being the NI reduction. And clearly more needs to be done. We could get into typical Cake Stop semantics over whether taxes have fallen depending on the starting point, period of measurement etc, so easier if I clarify what I was trying to say above.
I wonder how many people will vote Labour because they think that they will get more money from the state?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Fair question. It may be a higher priority, but I haven't seen any specific policies that address this, let alone how they might fund them given that the policy changes they have proposed so far are pretty minor in terms of their estimated impact on tax revenue in the scheme of things.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Regardless of which party you support (or none) I think anyone banking on long term reductions in the overall tax take is kidding themselves. Government spending has been hit by inflation as much as everyone else. And being a nation of aged and sick, demand on health, care and pension spending is only going to increase. A couple of hundred quid per taxpayer is an easy thing to do when you more or less know someone else will be balancing the books in a year's time.
The interesting thing about that graph of tax burden as a share of GDP is that the absolute figures for overall spending and receipts are almost a straight line. It's just that the lack of growth in the last few years means that overall tax rates need to go up to compensate. The only way taxes significantly reduce is if we all start producing more.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
glad you agree with me that calling this party of corrupt, self-serving, liars, a party of party of corrupt, self-serving, liars is neutral and reasonable
we can certainly rely on you to dodge facts...
the tories failed to fix the extreme marginal tax rate caused by tapering, in place long before covid/ukraine
the last tax rises were not due to covid/ukraine, they were due to the tories trashing the uk's reputation with the markets
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
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Has this been posted?
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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As someone in the thread noted, it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, as people tend to say altruistic things for opinion polls, and then (depressingly) tend to vote for their own personal tax cut when it comes to elections, and screw altruism.
That said, I suspect/hope that the Tories have both so monumentally screwed everything up, and lied so frequently, that voters won't fall for the 8-2 = "tax cut" that will benefit the well off more than the least well off in any case. I'm hoping that Truss/Kwartang have burst the 'trickle-down economics' bubble, at least till collective amnesia sets in when they get bored with Labour and want to believe something else.
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There's an annoying poster on here with a hobby horse. Apparently, the old folk (aka boomers) vote Tory and the young folk (aka snowflake avocado eaters) vote labour.
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The option of cut taxes and increase spending without increasing borrowing wasn't available.
Clearly biased. Stevo won't be pleased.
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Sure possible
Also possible that people just want stuff to work for a bit first
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
There's 4 age bands on there
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
That's what the 'baked in' opinion poll leads suggest. I think people have pretty much switched off listening to the Tories' attempts to 'break through' with their launches, relaunches and rerelaunches of various gimmicks, none of which address the underlying concerns of a majority of voters. I suspect any last-minute giveaways will be seen as desperate attention grabbing, and won't persuade many that the past fourteen years' shambles needs any extension.
It's worth remembering that the poll lead for Starmer is without any great enthusiasm for the man himself, unlike for Blair (IIRC): there's no charisma, he's dull & rather boring, and yet they've still got about double the amount of support than the Tories have, and it's not budging. I think the UK electorate actually wants to be a bored by the politicians - they've had enough of the showmen for now.
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It’s a bit of odd one. The oldies seem more keen to tax and spend which makes sense when you are no longer working or due to retire soon I guess but then they apparently are more likely to vote for the ‘low tax’ Party and vice versa for younger voters who are more likely to vote for the tax and spend Party
Also interesting that all cohorts would rather pay more tax in return for better services. It would be good to see historical data on the issue. Is it a sign that the consensus is austerity has gone too far and needs reversing? Of course it is highly likely that many of them want the higher taxes to be paid by ‘others’..
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Um, it has one!
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That'd be the age split that shows Rick's age bracket is as keen on tax cuts at the 65+ bracket.
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I think there's a little bit of thinking more taxes, but talking to friends, a number would be willing to pay higher taxes if public services were better.
Certainly the frustration ATM is the feeling of high taxes, low investment and poor public services.
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Thanks for providing more evidence for what I said above 🙂
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
