2024 Election thread
Comments
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That's true. They seem to be doubling down which along with a split party and a split vote can only help Labour.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The electorate also want contradicting things so I think in general it is best not to evaluate their opinion on single issues, let alone decide policy.
The electorate also wants free money, world class public sector care and no taxes.
The advantage of representative democracy is it ought to be about voting in governors who try to run the whole country as best they can, taking all those different issues and electoral desires into consideration, and the electorate gets to chose if they want to continue with that or not.
For the same reason asking the electorate about Brexit was stupid, so would be determining public policy about opinion polls on single issue topics.
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What was good about Thatcher, Blair etc is they had a good unifying strategy which pulled it all together and had all the inbuilt compromises fully formed.
Thatcher’s aim was to shrink the state, free up markets and let the market allocate.
Blair was really about tweaking said model with some basic social welfare nets and better public sector investment to improve performance in that regard.
This lot are what, not interested in shrinking the state, or social welfare, but are interested in underfunding the state and social welfare (bar pensions), which is short term gain for long term pain Ss it’s the worst of both worlds.
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So why would they vote Tory if that is their desire? They've proven they can't sort it out - it has been one of their pledges for as long as I can remember. This is from their 2017 manifesto
"We will therefore ask the independent Migration Advisory Committee to make recommendations to the government about how the visa system can become better aligned with our modern industrial strategy. We envisage that the committee’s advice will allow us to set aside significant numbers of visas for workers in strategically-important sectors, such as digital technology, without adding to net migration as a whole."
They were going to somehow control immigration so we get the people we need without increasing net migration. That's not gone well over a 6 year period.
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I thought it was accepted that the electorate was asked to make a decision for which they were ill equipped to make an informed decision
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Not sure, but general elections aren't really any different.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's up to everyone to decide who they want to vote for and on what basis, obviously. Clearly this isn't the only issue, but if it was people might take into account whether any party really wants to reduce immigration to sensible levels. only see one party that wants to even if they have not been successful so far. And as mentioned upthread, there have been a number of one off factors which have made things worse.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yep. There was more research on the subject published last year. It showed brexit voters on average had lower cognitive ability, making them more susceptible to misinformation and disinformation, and less able to make a informed decision.
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
If the electorate aren't in a position to take an informed decision on a single issue then how do you expect them to make an informed decision on a who to govern, which takes in pretty much every issue that the state is involved with?
Also, while the average voter may not be at the lofty heights of IQ and intellect on display here, they can generally distinguish between what is feasible/realistic and what isn't (to your example above of free money) - although after looking at the pay rise the nurses asked for and junior doctors want, sometimes you have to wonder...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
But all they're doing is saying they want to do something about it as the evidence suggests they've not done anything or even tried to do anything substantial. Their headline policies of 'stopping the boats' are just tinkering around the edges of the real numbers even if they do finally manage to get Rwanda approved. I genuinely don't think they really care about it and it is just words to act as a dog whistle to certain voters they hope to entice. However, it looks like they are taking The Who's wise words and won't be fooled again.
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Stevo, the Conservative party is not interested in reducing immigration. Their major immigration policy - one of their five pledges - is a token gesture that will have zero effect if it ever even becomes law.
They've not just been unsuccessful in reducing immigration, they have actively been increasing it.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
lol they want no immigration but they also want the NHS staff shortage to go away.
How do you propose doing that?
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Throw an extra 350 million a week into it?
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How about letting in the people we need rather than letting anyone in who rocks up up on the ferry? (Which we now have the choice over post Brexit) We don't need 700k people a year.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Actively increasing via what policies and actions exactly?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Handing out more visas.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
they've had a few years in control now, but their actions have been only to throw the doors open wide to those who had no previous right to entry
a few desperate in boats is a drop in the ocean compared to the numbers they deliberately chose to admit
actions speak louder than words, they have proven themselves untrustworthy liars, only an idiot would believe them
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
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The electorate? It is an issue for the pepper pots and gammon, but does seem to have some traction. As previously, it doesn't matter if they are informed or not.
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when anybody from the EU could rock up on a ferry we had net migration of 200,000, since we clamped down on that it has fallen (??) to 700,000 a year.
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Ironic that you're a champion of the free market when comes to immigration, but not when it comes to house prices (which are affected by immigration).
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
OK, but I'm not sure how that is related to my post?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Strange how the NHS didn't collapse when immigration was that low. Maybe @rick_chasey knows?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
When you, the educated professional, move to the Uk for work, and your family across the channel and in a lovely rich country, why ship em over to live in the UK?
Different story when they live in a sh!thole in a different continent.
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I’m literally arguing to cut out a shitload of regulation and paperwork so the housing market operates more freely.
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Wage inflation and falling unemployment say different.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How did it work in the past times of wage inflation and falling unemployment but immigration was nowhere near 700k pa?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So what unnecessary (legal) immigration is being allowed and why?
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We didn't have such a large geriatric population on benefits using services?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Interesting but how does that answer my question?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
