TDF 2023: Stage 13:- Châtillon-Sur-Chalaronne to Grand Colombier, 138km ***Spoilers***

No_Ta_Doctor

Pross said:

andyp said:

For all the talk of UAE's tactics, they isolated Vingegaard very early and left him totally reliant on Kuss from a long way out. It didn't matter today, but psychologically, that has to be a blow to Jumbo-Visma.

Maybe they thought Jumbo had wasted a lot of energy in the last few days so decided to keep it quite hard (although the break holding them off suggests it wasn't that hard a pace).

Jonas said on DK TV they'd been given the day off to be fresh for tomorrow, though that's posssibly just spin

Lanterne_Rogue

I still don't really get chasing down Yates. I can't believe they weren't all "sure, go away up the road and take the bonus seconds, we'll just be chilling back here and let your leader do the work, yeah?"

Pross

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

andyp said:

For all the talk of UAE's tactics, they isolated Vingegaard very early and left him totally reliant on Kuss from a long way out. It didn't matter today, but psychologically, that has to be a blow to Jumbo-Visma.

Maybe they thought Jumbo had wasted a lot of energy in the last few days so decided to keep it quite hard (although the break holding them off suggests it wasn't that hard a pace).

Jonas said on DK TV they'd been given the day off to be fresh for tomorrow, though that's posssibly just spin

Feels like a stretch 'ride your nads off on a couple of transition stages killing yourselves to try to get into meaningless breaks but take the day off on one of the main MTFs'.

No_Ta_Doctor

Lanterne_Rogue said:

I still don't really get chasing down Yates. I can't believe they weren't all "sure, go away up the road and take the bonus seconds, we'll just be chilling back here and let your leader do the work, yeah?"

But with a small gap, if Pog had jumped over with that initial burst, Yates could have towed him while Kuss/Vingegaard were trying to close.

blazing_saddles

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

andyp said:

For all the talk of UAE's tactics, they isolated Vingegaard very early and left him totally reliant on Kuss from a long way out. It didn't matter today, but psychologically, that has to be a blow to Jumbo-Visma.

Maybe they thought Jumbo had wasted a lot of energy in the last few days so decided to keep it quite hard (although the break holding them off suggests it wasn't that hard a pace).

Jonas said on DK TV they'd been given the day off to be fresh for tomorrow, though that's posssibly just spin

It didn't look like spin to me.
WVA and half the team toodled in just behind one of the laughing groups. Obviously saving themselves for the weekend.
The Breakaway lot seem obsessed with energy and how teams waste it or save it.
UAE were in their sights after today's stage. Yesterday it was Jumbo.
Not sure what the expect them to do as they are not allowed to ride team buses to stage finishes!

phreak

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

andyp said:

For all the talk of UAE's tactics, they isolated Vingegaard very early and left him totally reliant on Kuss from a long way out. It didn't matter today, but psychologically, that has to be a blow to Jumbo-Visma.

Maybe they thought Jumbo had wasted a lot of energy in the last few days so decided to keep it quite hard (although the break holding them off suggests it wasn't that hard a pace).

Jonas said on DK TV they'd been given the day off to be fresh for tomorrow, though that's posssibly just spin

The JV roster is mainly classics riders. Apart from Kuss they don't have any real mountain domestiques.

No_Ta_Doctor

phreak said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

andyp said:

For all the talk of UAE's tactics, they isolated Vingegaard very early and left him totally reliant on Kuss from a long way out. It didn't matter today, but psychologically, that has to be a blow to Jumbo-Visma.

Maybe they thought Jumbo had wasted a lot of energy in the last few days so decided to keep it quite hard (although the break holding them off suggests it wasn't that hard a pace).

Jonas said on DK TV they'd been given the day off to be fresh for tomorrow, though that's posssibly just spin

The JV roster is mainly classics riders. Apart from Kuss they don't have any real mountain domestiques.

Kuss and Kelderman

Lanterne_Rogue

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Lanterne_Rogue said:

I still don't really get chasing down Yates. I can't believe they weren't all "sure, go away up the road and take the bonus seconds, we'll just be chilling back here and let your leader do the work, yeah?"

But with a small gap, if Pog had jumped over with that initial burst, Yates could have towed him while Kuss/Vingegaard were trying to close.

is Yates really capable of towing Pogacar on the charge though? If Tadej goes in the last 2km he's not going to sit on Yates' wheel waiting to see if JV can close it back down, it's an all-in job.

No_Ta_Doctor

Lanterne_Rogue said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Lanterne_Rogue said:

I still don't really get chasing down Yates. I can't believe they weren't all "sure, go away up the road and take the bonus seconds, we'll just be chilling back here and let your leader do the work, yeah?"

But with a small gap, if Pog had jumped over with that initial burst, Yates could have towed him while Kuss/Vingegaard were trying to close.

is Yates really capable of towing Pogacar on the charge though? If Tadej goes in the last 2km he's not going to sit on Yates' wheel waiting to see if JV can close it back down, it's an all-in job.

I reckon so - they were playing for seconds here, so it all counts. Only needs maybe 10-15 seconds full effort to pull a couple more seconds out while saving Pog a handful of watts.

ddraver

https://twitter.com/Watts_Occurring/status/1679902020512231426?s=20

pblakeney

blazing_saddles said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

andyp said:

For all the talk of UAE's tactics, they isolated Vingegaard very early and left him totally reliant on Kuss from a long way out. It didn't matter today, but psychologically, that has to be a blow to Jumbo-Visma.

Maybe they thought Jumbo had wasted a lot of energy in the last few days so decided to keep it quite hard (although the break holding them off suggests it wasn't that hard a pace).

Jonas said on DK TV they'd been given the day off to be fresh for tomorrow, though that's posssibly just spin

It didn't look like spin to me.
WVA and half the team toodled in just behind one of the laughing groups. Obviously saving themselves for the weekend.
The Breakaway lot seem obsessed with energy and how teams waste it or save it.
UAE were in their sights after today's stage. Yesterday it was Jumbo.
Not sure what the expect them to do as they are not allowed to ride team buses to stage finishes!

That is the impression that I have too.
Will be a tough day tomorrow for anyone feeling it today.

mididoctors

rick_chasey said:

Snooze stage alas.

I was glued to it

Pross

mididoctors said:

rick_chasey said:

Snooze stage alas.

I was glued to it

It didn’t get ‘a stage for the ages’ or even ‘One of the all time great Tour stages’ status so wasn’t that good.

roscoe

shirley_basso said:

Didn't yates do a giro (the one froome did a 'landis') a bit like this - lots of small attacks, got loads of time, then completely faded at the end

I think he lost 18 minutes to Froome that day, if memory serves me.

Mad_Malx

Rodriguez honouring the Zubeldia invisible jersey

ddraver

All credit to @Lanterne_Rogue 's thread for making me notice this but it brings home quite how severe Peter Sagan has suffered from Covid seeing, arguably, his greatest lifetime sparring partner at the front of the race while he limps in with a domestique pretty much at the back...

(I only don't write this in the thread because it kinda kills the vibe)

Lanterne_Rogue

I don't think just one stage tells the story, but Sagan genuinely doesn't seem himself.

That said, I think he suffers from the same problem as Cavendish did, and that Wout will soon - very few people have ever performed at that level, so it's hardly a surprise if those people who did can't keep it up over more than a few years. It's extraordinary that they ever did, really.

RichN95.

Ineos/Sky certainly love an MTF on Bastille Day. Froome twice (2013,2015), Pidcock last year and now Kwiato all winning stages. (Also Froome's Ventoux run)

RichN95.

Mad_Malx said:

Rodriguez honouring the Zubeldia invisible jersey

If he wasn't British, Pidcock would be in contention too. He's literally invisible a lot of the time as he's so small you can't see him behind other riders.

daniel_b

mididoctors said:

rick_chasey said:

Snooze stage alas.

I was glued to it

Agreed, great ending to the stage, plenty of action, and waiting for the attack.

Delighted to see Kwiato get the win

mididoctors

Pross said:

mididoctors said:

rick_chasey said:

Snooze stage alas.

I was glued to it

It didn’t get ‘a stage for the ages’ or even ‘One of the all time great Tour stages’ status so wasn’t that good.

It was fascinating. Never seen a tour like this

RichN95.

mididoctors said:

Pross said:

mididoctors said:

rick_chasey said:

Snooze stage alas.

I was glued to it

It didn’t get ‘a stage for the ages’ or even ‘One of the all time great Tour stages’ status so wasn’t that good.

It was fascinating. Never seen a tour like this

The break was good. Won by the person who paced it best. But the GC race lasted 400m.
The Slovenians have reduced stage racing to post flamme rouge sprints, bonus seconds and time trials. Pog is using Rog's template, ironically using Jumbo's tactics against them. At least it keeps it tight. It's not the shock and awe tactics of Contador and Froome.

mididoctors

Pog is closing in on Jonas like its zenos paradox ...halfing the time gap every attack but never getting there

mididoctors

The GC race was kinda meta ..

m.r.m.

Lanterne_Rogue said:

I don't think just one stage tells the story, but Sagan genuinely doesn't seem himself.

That said, I think he suffers from the same problem as Cavendish did, and that Wout will soon - very few people have ever performed at that level, so it's hardly a surprise if those people who did can't keep it up over more than a few years. It's extraordinary that they ever did, really.

From what I've heard it's not purely physical with Sagan. The divorce among some other things have also taken their toll - understandably. It's a huge shame, because he hasn't seemed like himself for years now. He is a shadow of the rider he used to be.

gsk82

RichN95. said:

mididoctors said:

Pross said:

mididoctors said:

rick_chasey said:

Snooze stage alas.

I was glued to it

It didn’t get ‘a stage for the ages’ or even ‘One of the all time great Tour stages’ status so wasn’t that good.

It was fascinating. Never seen a tour like this

The break was good. Won by the person who paced it best. But the GC race lasted 400m.
The Slovenians have reduced stage racing to post flamme rouge sprints, bonus seconds and time trials. Pog is using Rog's template, ironically using Jumbo's tactics against them. At least it keeps it tight. It's not the shock and awe tactics of Contador and Froome.

It seems like Vingergaard is using Roglic giro 23 tactics. Saving energy and aiming for 1 big stage.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/1680122221451157505?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg

Loool

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/velovelovelo__/status/1680122886726508545?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg

mididoctors

In public tweets like that ....not sure that's a good look for anybody .

mididoctors

Heulot abandoned the tour in yellow on the road to Les arcs in 96 ( what a stage that was ) ...brave ride his knee was knackered ...no one slagged him off