TDF 2023: Stage 6:- Tarbes to Cauterets, 145km ***Spoilers***
Comments
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The one thing I have learned from those fly on the wall documentaries is that far less thinking goes into strategy than I would have thought. Very strange.DeVlaeminck said:
They were right to put some pressure on Pogacar and see if he'd crack but was it necessary to go all in and expose Vingegaard that far out and was it wise to persist with the plan when Pogacar was sat on Vingegaard's wheel on the final climb ?gsk82 said:Nibali took the lead on stage 2 and only gave it up for 1 stage to a breakaway.
They were completely right to try and finish off Pogacar today. Vingergaard was way better than Pogacar yesterday and had every right to back himself today.
Surely if you are on that team bus this morning and someone raises the scenario what if we don't drop Pogacar and he's with JV 4k from the top nobody would answer just ride a hard consistent tempo.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Hmm. I should imagine a lot of the talk about strategy happens at other times than on the bus right before the start, which is chosen because it looks good on TV (and chimes with what the audience expect) but is only going to cover the key points. And massive dumps of information are hardly going to be great TV either.0
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Excellent commentary everyone. Really enjoyed the read. 👏
Prior to the Tour beginning I thought UAE's team would be slightly stronger than JV in the mountains. That has been patently false so far. Pogacar is back to being isolated all the time. Today was a stage where either Soler or Majka needed to have been with Pog while Kuss was still there. Pogacar is bailing out a ton of people in management in that team.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20231 -
Thanks again, picked a point and lucked upon 53.5km to go.
Thrilling last 53.5km, great to see Pog attack and take it to JV.
Handy the Murray game paused early, still watching this stage at nearly 00:20 🤣Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
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I fully acknowledge that. I still think showing plan A and plan B would be interesting for the viewer to watch it pan out in the race. Strange they don't show it, if it happens.Lanterne_Rogue said:Hmm. I should imagine a lot of the talk about strategy happens at other times than on the bus right before the start, which is chosen because it looks good on TV (and chimes with what the audience expect) but is only going to cover the key points. And massive dumps of information are hardly going to be great TV either.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I do wonder how many of those commenting have actually ridden the final climb they did yesterday? The road to Cauteret itself is little more than a false flat, which is why WvA had so many people on his wheel. When you turn off to Cambasque it's different gravy and averages 10km for a few km. If drafting was a major factor Kwiato could possibly have held on, but in reality it's mano e mano at that kind of gradient.
On the day, Pogacar was just better.0 -
Arguably the only rider UAE have at the Tour who can come close to matching Kuss, is Adam Yates. Three of their best climbers - Ayuso, Almeida and Vine - aren't even at the Tour.m.r.m. said:Excellent commentary everyone. Really enjoyed the read. 👏
Prior to the Tour beginning I thought UAE's team would be slightly stronger than JV in the mountains. That has been patently false so far. Pogacar is back to being isolated all the time. Today was a stage where either Soler or Majka needed to have been with Pog while Kuss was still there. Pogacar is bailing out a ton of people in management in that team.0 -
Adam Yates has never been a mountain domestique his entire career. His strength is week-long stage races, essentially where the big guns aren't there. Kuss is quite unique in the sense of being an incredibly good climber who seems to have no GC ambitions.andyp said:
Arguably the only rider UAE have at the Tour who can come close to matching Kuss, is Adam Yates. Three of their best climbers - Ayuso, Almeida and Vine - aren't even at the Tour.m.r.m. said:Excellent commentary everyone. Really enjoyed the read. 👏
Prior to the Tour beginning I thought UAE's team would be slightly stronger than JV in the mountains. That has been patently false so far. Pogacar is back to being isolated all the time. Today was a stage where either Soler or Majka needed to have been with Pog while Kuss was still there. Pogacar is bailing out a ton of people in management in that team.0 -
FFS there's another JV!!!No_Ta_Doctor said:
No Jonas Vingegaard either though, it was Roglic (unless original poster used JV to mean Jumbo-Visma...)andyp said:
No double teaming on the Loze in 2020 either.No_Ta_Doctor said:
Don't think there was a double team on Ventoux in 21 was there?ddraver said:
....is he though?No_Ta_Doctor said:OK, let's deal with this in two parts.
Firstly, the attack on the Tourmalet.
The reason for this was the belief that Jonas is better on longer, steep climbs, especially at altitude.
The only other times JV has cracked Pog is when he has had a team mate to double team him first. The evidence would suggest that Jonas' strength is in recovering from lots of little attacks...
Anyhoo there is a lot of "Greatest comeback in sport ever, ever!!” happening on cyclo-twitter this evening
Anywway, the theory is that long, steep, altitude (and heat) are Pog's weak spots. Because 8km at 6-7% certainly isn't. Jonas wasn't better than him today though.
Completely slipped my mind that Jonas is a JV, along with Jonathan Vaughters and Jumbo Visma0 -
Another reason it’s a shame there’s no Ayuso, Vine and Almeda here: we’d be awash with JVs and JAs and have lots of hilarious name japes like a bad sketch in Two Ronnies…takethehighroad said:
FFS there's another JV!!!No_Ta_Doctor said:
No Jonas Vingegaard either though, it was Roglic (unless original poster used JV to mean Jumbo-Visma...)andyp said:
No double teaming on the Loze in 2020 either.No_Ta_Doctor said:
Don't think there was a double team on Ventoux in 21 was there?ddraver said:
....is he though?No_Ta_Doctor said:OK, let's deal with this in two parts.
Firstly, the attack on the Tourmalet.
The reason for this was the belief that Jonas is better on longer, steep climbs, especially at altitude.
The only other times JV has cracked Pog is when he has had a team mate to double team him first. The evidence would suggest that Jonas' strength is in recovering from lots of little attacks...
Anyhoo there is a lot of "Greatest comeback in sport ever, ever!!” happening on cyclo-twitter this evening
Anywway, the theory is that long, steep, altitude (and heat) are Pog's weak spots. Because 8km at 6-7% certainly isn't. Jonas wasn't better than him today though.
Completely slipped my mind that Jonas is a JV, along with Jonathan Vaughters and Jumbo Visma
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Four candles"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1
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Gruber is simply exceptional (both of them)
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver2 -
"Another reason it’s a shame there’s no Ayuso, Vine and Almeda here: we’d be awash with JVs and JAs and have lots of hilarious name japes like a bad sketch in Two Ronnies…"
Has to be a candidate for 'post of the tour' non? 🤣Scott Foil RC
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Trek Emonda0 -
He has stated he is very happy with his domestique role and does not want the pressure of going for GC.phreak said:Kuss is quite unique in the sense of being an incredibly good climber who seems to have no GC ambitions.
I thought the producers missed the actual second Pog went?ddraver said:Watching highlights (again)
The face JV pulls when Pog attacks...
EDIT: Watched again, no they did not miss it at all.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
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As you both say, a lot has happened the night before (Ineos with the Pidcock episode) or before the bus parks up at the start. I guess Netflix cameras jumped on a bus at the stage start instead of travelling from the hotel with them.pblakeney said:
I fully acknowledge that. I still think showing plan A and plan B would be interesting for the viewer to watch it pan out in the race. Strange they don't show it, if it happens.Lanterne_Rogue said:Hmm. I should imagine a lot of the talk about strategy happens at other times than on the bus right before the start, which is chosen because it looks good on TV (and chimes with what the audience expect) but is only going to cover the key points. And massive dumps of information are hardly going to be great TV either.
All the individual roles would be set so it's just a reminder of main dangers/climbs etc. Radios allow for a lot of on the fly tactics. Unless they start broadcasting the tactics and not just "well done guys, keep fuelling, you're in the game" on the TV feed.
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I think what makes many of their photos so great is that they treat the racing as part of the background rather than the subject. Quite often the photo is a landscape phto that a bike race happens to be passing through or the locals are the subject of the photo as the race passes. It is much more artistic than sport photography, I love their work.ddraver said:Gruber is simply exceptional (both of them)
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Is it the col du Tente?phreak said:I do wonder how many of those commenting have actually ridden the final climb they did yesterday? The road to Cauteret itself is little more than a false flat, which is why WvA had so many people on his wheel. When you turn off to Cambasque it's different gravy and averages 10km for a few km. If drafting was a major factor Kwiato could possibly have held on, but in reality it's mano e mano at that kind of gradient.
On the day, Pogacar was just better."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
No, that's up from Gavarniegsk82 said:
Is it the col du Tente?phreak said:I do wonder how many of those commenting have actually ridden the final climb they did yesterday? The road to Cauteret itself is little more than a false flat, which is why WvA had so many people on his wheel. When you turn off to Cambasque it's different gravy and averages 10km for a few km. If drafting was a major factor Kwiato could possibly have held on, but in reality it's mano e mano at that kind of gradient.
On the day, Pogacar was just better.0 -
It's the road up to Pont d'Espagne. I never did it even when I was staying in Pierrefitte-Nestalas because I didn't fancy the traffic for an out and back.0
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We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Technically not. The road forks at Cauterets, with the climb to Cambasque doable in the Tour and the road to Pont d'Espagne not (as it's a national park or something I think). Both are quite pretty, although nothing like as pretty as Gavarnie/Tromousse.kingstongraham said:It's the road up to Pont d'Espagne. I never did it even when I was staying in Pierrefitte-Nestalas because I didn't fancy the traffic for an out and back.
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Still blows my mind WvA was basically first wheel for the entire stage bar the final 7km. Unreal.1
