TDF 2023: Stage 6:- Tarbes to Cauterets, 145km ***Spoilers***
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JV have the jersey now and with that comes responsibilities. I'm glad they tried today, but with hindsight, you have to question their tactics.0
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Probably the last time HC climbs started appearing this early. It's been unusual in that regard.r0bh said:When was the last time that 10th place was more than 5 minutes behind after only 6 stages
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Pogaçar's celebration seemed apt, btw. Definitely deserved to take a bow after the entertainment he provided.
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Absolutely glorious stuff.
Also means we have the next few days to speculate at length which way it's gonna go.
Wonderful.2 -
Got two days recovery now as well.0
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It was risky structuring the race this way and could have seen it over and done with by the first rest day, especially when Pog had his crash back in the spring. Luckily having two evenly matched riders who really want to race has meant it has been successful.0
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2016.r0bh said:When was the last time that 10th place was more than 5 minutes behind after only 6 stages
But then again, second place was 5 minutes down and I don't think anyone expected Van Avermaert to stay in yellow.0 -
I'm not sure I would class Saturday as a nailed on rest/recovery day.kingstongraham said:Got two days recovery now as well.
200kms and it's forcast to be 30C, on heavy roads. Hardly any flat in the last 80kms."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
This is a great game: in 2005 some guy by the name of Thomas Voeckler had 10 minutes on 10th place (depending on where you place LA). There wouldn't be a dry pair of pants in France if that happened today. Sadly for TV he finished 31 (or 25) minutes down on GC.kingstongraham said:
2016.r0bh said:When was the last time that 10th place was more than 5 minutes behind after only 6 stages
But then again, second place was 5 minutes down and I don't think anyone expected Van Avermaert to stay in yellow.
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Cake is just weakness entering the body1 -
Close, but no cigar.wakemalcolm said:
This is a great game: in 2005 some guy by the name of Thomas Voeckler had 10 minutes on 10th place (depending on where you place LA). There wouldn't be a dry pair of pants in France if that happened today. Sadly for TV he finished 31 (or 25) minutes down on GC.kingstongraham said:
2016.r0bh said:When was the last time that 10th place was more than 5 minutes behind after only 6 stages
But then again, second place was 5 minutes down and I don't think anyone expected Van Avermaert to stay in yellow.
It was 2004.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.2 -
Voeckler was a dream come true. Got in a breakaway and got a big time gap. Armstrong/Ullrich let him have it for 10 stages and battled it out between them conscious they could get the jersey back. Voecler was headline news in France and rode like a man possessed. He repeated it in the year Cadel Evans won I think but blew up on the Telegraph or Galibier.0
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Good and fair challenge: think I had PCS blindness by 2004.blazing_saddles said:
Close, but no cigar.wakemalcolm said:
This is a great game: in 2005 some guy by the name of Thomas Voeckler had 10 minutes on 10th place (depending on where you place LA). There wouldn't be a dry pair of pants in France if that happened today. Sadly for TV he finished 31 (or 25) minutes down on GC.kingstongraham said:
2016.r0bh said:When was the last time that 10th place was more than 5 minutes behind after only 6 stages
But then again, second place was 5 minutes down and I don't think anyone expected Van Avermaert to stay in yellow.
It was 2004.================================
Cake is just weakness entering the body0 -
I get why you might say that - and certain commentators (including at one point Jonathan Vaughters) where doing so in real time - but when your guy puts a minute into the world’s best rider the day before, you’ve got to double down. And today we saw why he’s the world’s best rider.andyp said:JV have the jersey now and with that comes responsibilities. I'm glad they tried today, but with hindsight, you have to question their tactics.
Please don’t take it personally, but retrospective “experts” are bloody annoying- Chris Horner and that bloke off YouTube Lanterne Rouge, for example. I’d love to see how they’d fare as DS’s…1 -
FWIW I was saying before the Tourmalet JV would be mad to rip it up.
The Lance model is a good model if you’ve got the best legs.
Smash em first chance you get in the mountains and ride conservatively for the others.
Repeat for each mountain range.
It was riskier to kick it off earlier, and in the end the risk didn’t pay off.0 -
Once Pogacar followed Ving it was a high risk strategy and it looked it at the time. JV had the lead and there was no need for him to set the pace with Pogacar on his wheel.
I'd say there were two obvious tactical mistakes.
One when you hold a useful lead over your main rival why concoct a plan that leaves you isolated for so long on the final climb.
Two once your attack hasn't shaken your main rival and all you are doing is towing them at a strong but consistent pace isn't it obviously time to abandon the plan ?
Yes if you are behind on GC in the final week maybe but it just seemed a big risk - that's not to say it couldn't have won them the race and I like that they did it but you wouldn't have seen peak Sky doing it.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
I don’t think it was mad. Lance never had a WVA, for a start (he several guys that, combined, equalled WVA). He was the guy that put Pog into the red last year to enable Vinge to go over the top. And if the same thing happened today that happened yesterday - Vinge putting a very quick minute into Pog by the top - Pog would tonight be going on about missing the endurance because of his wrist, going for stages, blah blah…0
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Scrap the rest of the course.
Make them do 2 more laps of the first 6 days.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
Not sure about the sprint daystailwindhome said:Scrap the rest of the course.
Make them do 2 more laps of the first 6 days.0 -
Got to keep the Cav interest going...rick_chasey said:
Not sure about the sprint daystailwindhome said:Scrap the rest of the course.
Make them do 2 more laps of the first 6 days.0 -
We keep doing laps until Cav wins one.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!3
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Anyway. Watching the highlights and wondering how we're getting from here to a Pog win. Lol.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
And WVA up the road“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Not a bad day at all! Shame I was on my ‘office’ day and had to try and watch on my phone between meetings0
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It was a good plan that didn't work - up until Vingegaard dropped Kwiatkowski with 4km to go and then carried on giving everything trying to drop pog for another km when it wasn't happening. Looked like he never even considered pog might have an attack in him.0
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I was questioning the tactics during the stage, to be fair. I get the need to double down, but why risk it the day after you've made a massive effort to gain a minute? The more sensible option would've been to keep at least Kuss with him over the top of the Tourmalet, then test Pogacar on the final climb.ocdupalais said:
I get why you might say that - and certain commentators (including at one point Jonathan Vaughters) where doing so in real time - but when your guy puts a minute into the world’s best rider the day before, you’ve got to double down. And today we saw why he’s the world’s best rider.andyp said:JV have the jersey now and with that comes responsibilities. I'm glad they tried today, but with hindsight, you have to question their tactics.
Please don’t take it personally, but retrospective “experts” are bloody annoying- Chris Horner and that bloke off YouTube Lanterne Rouge, for example. I’d love to see how they’d fare as DS’s…
The way they set it up meant Vingegaard had to attack as soon as Wout was spent (and Wout could've done another kilometre if he hadn't gone so hard on the Aspin and Tourmalet) and, once it was clear he didn't have enough to drop Pogacar, he was exposed.1 -
Usually with ‘arch rivals’ , as spectators we will all side with one particular rider over another. Everyone will have a clear favorite. With these two, Vingegaard and Pogacar, I’d be equally happy for either to win. Their fighting spirit and talent obviously makes for great racing and both seem just so relaxed and not stressed off the bike. Hope the remaining two weeks are as exciting!2
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Yes: but that’s all an assessment made with hindsight. Vinge was clearly down with it as a plan today all the way to the point where Pog dropped him. I think it was a very reasonable assessment to say “we put time into Pog yesterday; this suggests he’s not where he needs to be - let’s capitalise now in case he gets his mojo back in the last week…”.andyp said:
I was questioning the tactics during the stage, to be fair. I get the need to double down, but why risk it the day after you've made a massive effort to gain a minute? The more sensible option would've been to keep at least Kuss with him over the top of the Tourmalet, then test Pogacar on the final climb.ocdupalais said:
I get why you might say that - and certain commentators (including at one point Jonathan Vaughters) where doing so in real time - but when your guy puts a minute into the world’s best rider the day before, you’ve got to double down. And today we saw why he’s the world’s best rider.andyp said:JV have the jersey now and with that comes responsibilities. I'm glad they tried today, but with hindsight, you have to question their tactics.
Please don’t take it personally, but retrospective “experts” are bloody annoying- Chris Horner and that bloke off YouTube Lanterne Rouge, for example. I’d love to see how they’d fare as DS’s…
The way they set it up meant Vingegaard had to attack as soon as Wout was spent (and Wout could've done another kilometre if he hadn't gone so hard on the Aspin and Tourmalet) and, once it was clear he didn't have enough to drop Pogacar, he was exposed.
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I thought JV did what I would have ..not in detail...when Jonas couldn't drop pog on the tourmalet there was a argument they should have let kuss back and back offocdupalais said:
I get why you might say that - and certain commentators (including at one point Jonathan Vaughters) where doing so in real time - but when your guy puts a minute into the world’s best rider the day before, you’ve got to double down. And today we saw why he’s the world’s best rider.andyp said:JV have the jersey now and with that comes responsibilities. I'm glad they tried today, but with hindsight, you have to question their tactics.
Please don’t take it personally, but retrospective “experts” are bloody annoying- Chris Horner and that bloke off YouTube Lanterne Rouge, for example. I’d love to see how they’d fare as DS’s…"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
