Weight, health & body image

Pross

Munsford0 said:

mully79 said:

Heres a nice graph of my weight from 2011 till now. I cannot really explain why I haven't succeeded in losing any weight over such a long period. The recent dip is almost 100% due to quitting alcohol.
I couldn't even tell you why I've continued to plot the graph regardless of success or failure !

Although I don't have a nice graph, that's what happened to me in middle age. I thought I was maintaining the same levels of activity and eating just the same as I'd always done, but my middle had been steadily growing. The wake up moment came when I spotted a fat little censored in a photo from a company jolly and realised it was me. At 5'6" and 11st 4lbs, I was definitely fatter than I wanted to be. Cue a couple of years trying to reduce calorie intake which made me miserable but no thinner. Then in 2012 I watched Michael Mosely's Eat Fast Live Longer documentary and decided to give 5:2 intermittent fasting a try. Monday and Thursday I eat nothing till the evening, and then only a 600 kcal snack. The other 5 days I eat whatever I like. Pretty quickly the inexorable weight gain went into reverse and in 3 months I'd lost 18lbs. Apart from pigging out at Christmas / Easter / on holiday I eat like that all the time now, and my weight is stable at 10st.

I discovered that a lot of my eating was just habit, and that not eating was easier than I'd feared. I don't feel constantly hungry on fasting days, but I do feel a bit chilly as the afternoon wears on, but it's easy to stick with it knowing you can eat whatever you like the next day.

I had a bit of success doing 16:8 fasting but couldn't decide if that was due to the method or generally monitoring my intake closely at the same time. Might give it another go as it should be very easy now I work from home all the time, the timings were tricky when travelling to and from an office.

TheBigBean

One of the things I used to love about travelling was that I could eat as much as l liked whenever I liked. Weight loss versus gain is the distinguishing feature between travel and holiday.

Pross

I weighed myself for the first time in a few weeks just now. Since the start of the year I have lost 5kg without really considering my diet. We have change what we eat a bit in that we use Hello Fresh meals 4 days a week but whilst they may be healthier than the meals we used to have with less processed ingredients they aren’t necessarily low fat / calorie. I have, however, got my motivation back to run regularly since changing jobs and have been averaging just under 30 miles a week. I know it’s yet another anecdotal sample of one etc. but I really can’t see how the weight loss isn’t mainly from exercising.

I’m now right on the border of normal and overweight with a BMI around 25 but if you can believe the fat reading on bioimpedance scales I’m now less than 15% body fat with my visceral fat having dropped back to 7 having risen to 9 in the last year or two.

The really good thing is I have now run PBs and both 10k and 5k this week (the later on a Parkrun half way through a 14 mile long run) so it’s gone from a vicious circle of weight gain leading to poor performance leading to lack of motivation to a virtuous circle the other way.

mully79

I choose not to believe my bio-impedance scales as I'm apparently 56% fat and 32% water which only leaves 12% other stuff..

wallace_and_gromit

Pross said:

I weighed myself for the first time in a few weeks just now. Since the start of the year I have lost 5kg without really considering my diet. We have change what we eat a bit in that we use Hello Fresh meals 4 days a week but whilst they may be healthier than the meals we used to have with less processed ingredients they aren’t necessarily low fat / calorie. I have, however, got my motivation back to run regularly since changing jobs and have been averaging just under 30 miles a week. I know it’s yet another anecdotal sample of one etc. but I really can’t see how the weight loss isn’t mainly from exercising.

I’m now right on the border of normal and overweight with a BMI around 25 but if you can believe the fat reading on bioimpedance scales I’m now less than 15% body fat with my visceral fat having dropped back to 7 having risen to 9 in the last year or two.

The really good thing is I have now run PBs and both 10k and 5k this week (the later on a Parkrun half way through a 14 mile long run) so it’s gone from a vicious circle of weight gain leading to poor performance leading to lack of motivation to a virtuous circle the other way.

Nice one!

Running truly is a gift from the Weight Loss Gods.

daniel_b

For those who use the 5:2, I'd be interested to hear how you structure the low calorie days.

As in do you have 1, 2, 3 or more snacks/meals during the day.

I know I can read up on stuff online, but I'd likely give more credence to personal experience from a fellow cyclist

On the subject of running, I used to run (Not very well or fast) and agree it was excellent for weight loss / calories consumed efficiency etc.

I have an issue of sorts with my right heel, as I guess I am an old fashioned 'heel striker' I have an issue on my right heel where the skin splits, and then takes a while to heal - any tips for how to deal with\prevent that as I do fancy taking it up again, as lacking in motivation on the turbo currently.

wallace_and_gromit

Something like this might help protect the broken skin whilst it heals, allowing you to carry on running.

https://groceries.asda.com/product/bandages-supports-antiseptic-dressings/asda-5-hydrocolloid-dressings/1000361202478?cmpid=ppc-_-ghs-_--_-bing-_--_-dskwid-s92700044654060331_dc&cwc=ppc-pla&cwd=ghs&cwf=pm&ds_kid=92700044654060331&gclid=bc315edd04e4147810023a9b40dd3fb5&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1254319&msclkid=bc315edd04e4147810023a9b40dd3fb5&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing PLA - Brand - All Products&utm_term=4578572603220713&utm_content=All Products

Numerous other brands, shapes and sizes exist.

I blistered my feet badly once practicing sockless running prior to a triathlon, and was able to continue my regular training regime with a few such dressings on my feet. They stay on in water pretty well too, so you don't need to replace them every time you shower etc.

shirley_basso

Pross said:

I weighed myself for the first time in a few weeks just now. Since the start of the year I have lost 5kg without really considering my diet. We have change what we eat a bit in that we use Hello Fresh meals 4 days a week but whilst they may be healthier than the meals we used to have with less processed ingredients they aren’t necessarily low fat / calorie. I have, however, got my motivation back to run regularly since changing jobs and have been averaging just under 30 miles a week. I know it’s yet another anecdotal sample of one etc. but I really can’t see how the weight loss isn’t mainly from exercising.

I’m now right on the border of normal and overweight with a BMI around 25 but if you can believe the fat reading on bioimpedance scales I’m now less than 15% body fat with my visceral fat having dropped back to 7 having risen to 9 in the last year or two.

The really good thing is I have now run PBs and both 10k and 5k this week (the later on a Parkrun half way through a 14 mile long run) so it’s gone from a vicious circle of weight gain leading to poor performance leading to lack of motivation to a virtuous circle the other way.

Huge congrats on the progress, Pross. I am still sufferning from a meniscus tear in my knee from Jan so not really been pushing it on the runs at all, just gently keeping the KMs up. I've been seeing a physio for ages which has helped my strength but not really fixed the pain. Seeing a consultant in a couple of weeks.

@daniel_b if you have feet issues then suggest you try dressings / change of trainers. Zinc Oxide tape is what I used a lot of to protect from blisters.

rick_chasey

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

rick_chasey

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

So there has been a collapse in willpower?

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

So there has been a collapse in willpower?

probably greater opportunity meaning that you need more willpower.

You don't believe us but people used to have a lot less money and opportunity so you could not just pick a computer out of your pocket and have virtually any style of food delivered to your door at any time of the day or night.

People only used to have those tiny freezers in the top of fridges so if you wanted another pie then you had to be bothered to go to a shop and if it was after 5pm, Weds afternoon or Sunday then you were sh1t out of luck

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

So there has been a collapse in willpower?

probably greater opportunity meaning that you need more willpower.

You don't believe us but people used to have a lot less money and opportunity so you could not just pick a computer out of your pocket and have virtually any style of food delivered to your door at any time of the day or night.

People only used to have those tiny freezers in the top of fridges so if you wanted another pie then you had to be bothered to go to a shop and if it was after 5pm, Weds afternoon or Sunday then you were censored out of luck

I think you over-estimate how much disposable income the average person has if you think they can eat delivery food on the reg.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

So there has been a collapse in willpower?

probably greater opportunity meaning that you need more willpower.

You don't believe us but people used to have a lot less money and opportunity so you could not just pick a computer out of your pocket and have virtually any style of food delivered to your door at any time of the day or night.

People only used to have those tiny freezers in the top of fridges so if you wanted another pie then you had to be bothered to go to a shop and if it was after 5pm, Weds afternoon or Sunday then you were censored out of luck

Walk to the shop presumably.

Munsford0

daniel_b said:

For those who use the 5:2, I'd be interested to hear how you structure the low calorie days.

As in do you have 1, 2, 3 or more snacks/meals during the day.

I know I can read up on stuff online, but I'd likely give more credence to personal experience from a fellow cyclist

I find that on the 2 diet days I'd rather have the 600 kcal all in one filling snack / meal in the evening. So I'm effectively fasting from 7pm to 7pm. All I have during the day is tea.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

So there has been a collapse in willpower?

No. Just greater opportunity to eat too much. Rich folk in the "Old Days" tended to the rotund, as they had the resources to eat more than the peasants. Hence the expression "You're looking very prosperous these days", which is politer than saying "Lordy. You've been hitting the pies at bit, haven't you?"

rick_chasey

I think it's more complex than that.

A good example given was that for a lot of jobs until the 80-90s, it was pretty standard to get a canteen hot meal provided for by your employer.

So you get a proper meal at least once a day.

Nowadays where do you go to get something?

(I have to say, this thread is definitely at risk of turning into a "isn't this interesting and counter-intuitive? > no my intuition says otherwise" thread. With added smugness from the thin cycling community...)

I don't think the idea that slim people are inherently stronger willed (and thus, implicitly, superior) is either helpful or accurate.

Pross

I would dispute that 'most employers' provided a hot meal. I worked somewhere with a staff canteen that was subsidised but still only used it very rarely for the curry days (they were every Wednesday but I probably went to them less than 10 times in 7 years). I used to mainly take sandwiches with me and then have a meal at home in the evening. If people had eaten in those canteens regularly then there would have been an even worse obesity crisis back then as the quality of the food would have made Jamie Oliver cry.

Munsford0

Genetics definitely plays a significant role for some people. Was at a family gathering the other day and was struck by the prevalence of obesity in one family group. Counter-intuitive, but they did a lot more exercise walking to and from the buffet than did the skinnier bunch...

TheBigBean

The number of people smoking in the UK has dropped significantly from 45% in 1974 to 14.1% in 2019. Willpower has increased. QED.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

The number of people smoking in the UK has dropped significantly from 45% in 1974 to 14.1% in 2019. Willpower has increased. QED.

Right. Exactly.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

The number of people smoking in the UK has dropped significantly from 45% in 1974 to 14.1% in 2019. Willpower has increased. QED.

Right. Exactly.

Er, I was making fun of your somewhat ridiculous point. You can't agree with it!

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

The number of people smoking in the UK has dropped significantly from 45% in 1974 to 14.1% in 2019. Willpower has increased. QED.

Right. Exactly.

Er, I was making fun of your somewhat ridiculous point. You can't agree with it!

What, that willpower does not explain the sudden rise in obesity (and thus, similarly, the drop in smokers)? Correct.

Willpower argument is just for thin people who want to feel superior to fat people. Not rooted in evidence, just intuition.

pblakeney

Name a better phrase for thinking along the lines of - "I know that it's unhealthy and bad for me but I'm going to eat it anyway because it tastes nice.".

TheBigBean

I found this article from a few years ago very good at explaining where the history of expert nutritional advice went wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

Afterwards, a scientist in the audience approached him. Surely, the man said, you’ve read Yudkin. Lustig shook his head. John Yudkin, said the scientist, was a British professor of nutrition who had sounded the alarm on sugar back in 1972, in a book called Pure, White, and Deadly.

“If only a small fraction of what we know about the effects of sugar were to be revealed in relation to any other material used as a food additive,” wrote Yudkin, “that material would promptly be banned.” The book did well, but Yudkin paid a high price for it. Prominent nutritionists combined with the food industry to destroy his reputation, and his career never recovered. He died, in 1995, a disappointed, largely forgotten man.

At best, we can conclude that the official guidelines did not achieve their objective; at worst, they led to a decades-long health catastrophe. Naturally, then, a search for culprits has ensued. Scientists are conventionally apolitical figures, but these days, nutrition researchers write editorials and books that resemble liberal activist tracts, fizzing with righteous denunciations of “big sugar” and fast food. Nobody could have predicted, it is said, how the food manufacturers would respond to the injunction against fat – selling us low-fat yoghurts bulked up with sugar, and cakes infused with liver-corroding transfats.

If, as seems increasingly likely, the nutritional advice on which we have relied for 40 years was profoundly flawed, this is not a mistake that can be laid at the door of corporate ogres. Nor can it be passed off as innocuous scientific error. What happened to John Yudkin belies that interpretation. It suggests instead that this is something the scientists did to themselves – and, consequently, to us.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

Name a better phrase for thinking along the lines of - "I know that it's unhealthy and bad for me but I'm going to eat it anyway because it tastes nice.".

Gluttony.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

The number of people smoking in the UK has dropped significantly from 45% in 1974 to 14.1% in 2019. Willpower has increased. QED.

Right. Exactly.

Er, I was making fun of your somewhat ridiculous point. You can't agree with it!

What, that willpower does not explain the sudden rise in obesity (and thus, similarly, the drop in smokers)? Correct.

Willpower argument is just for thin people who want to feel superior to fat people. Not rooted in evidence, just intuition.

Sorry, I thought you were arguing willpower had changed and weight was evidence of that.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

pblakeney said:

Name a better phrase for thinking along the lines of - "I know that it's unhealthy and bad for me but I'm going to eat it anyway because it tastes nice.".

Gluttony.

Hmmm. Gluttony or lack of willpower. Which is the least offensive?
Personally I think a lack of willpower sums up my moments of weakness.

rjsterry

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

🙄

I mean, the idea that there has been some fundamental shift in the average 'will power' of the populations of various countries around the world is certainly novel.

wallace_and_gromit

rjsterry said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Wife went to a talk by the UK's main food advisor (that awful guy from Leon), and he was making the point that being overweight is not because people are feckless or lazy or lack willpower; else the sudden rise in people's waistlines over the past few decades would have correlated with a mass collapse in willpower, which clearly isn't the case.

The only way it's not a willpower issue is if they are force fed.

🙄

I mean, the idea that there has been some fundamental shift in the average 'will power' of the populations of various countries around the world is certainly novel.

It is possible that people are simply less motivated to keep their weight under control. There isn't the same social stigma to being a "porker" (I can say this, as it was my nickname for years, first cruelly and then ironically) as there was in my school days.