Weight, health & body image

rjsterry

Dorset_Boy said:

rjsterry said:

No, sorry, I didn't read it.

Adverts for alcohol - a pretty big contributor to obesity - are everywhere. They have not been almost banned. I think you are overplaying the comparative impact of the odd Dove advert that dares to suggest that maybe it's nobody else's business what shape a person is.

Except it is when it becomes a strain on the NHS and care system.

Well no. We accept that despite smoking being restricted in public places, it is still nobody's business whether someone smokes at home. And of course nobody wants *their* ability to buy an ice cream infringed: just those awful fat people.

For sure it's a public health issue that needs addressing, but I would suggest that sanctimonious finger wagging about how weak-willed or lacking in self-care people are is unlikely to be effective.

wallace_and_gromit

rjsterry said:

Dorset_Boy said:

rjsterry said:

No, sorry, I didn't read it.

Adverts for alcohol - a pretty big contributor to obesity - are everywhere. They have not been almost banned. I think you are overplaying the comparative impact of the odd Dove advert that dares to suggest that maybe it's nobody else's business what shape a person is.

Except it is when it becomes a strain on the NHS and care system.

Well no. We accept that despite smoking being restricted in public places, it is still nobody's business whether someone smokes at home. And of course nobody wants *their* ability to buy an ice cream infringed: just those awful fat people.

For sure it's a public health issue that needs addressing, but I would suggest that sanctimonious finger wagging about how weak-willed or lacking in self-care people are is unlikely to be effective.

I think that covers the psychological side of things, but it doesn't change the biology. Finger-wagging in the face of being overweight being classed as bad doesn't change the need to manage calories in vs calories in order to achieve a healthy weight.

rick_chasey

We also haven't got to the obesity > poverty correlation, but presumably some of you will just tie that into being feckless, weak-willed and lazy.

rjsterry

wallace_and_gromit said:

rjsterry said:

Dorset_Boy said:

rjsterry said:

No, sorry, I didn't read it.

Adverts for alcohol - a pretty big contributor to obesity - are everywhere. They have not been almost banned. I think you are overplaying the comparative impact of the odd Dove advert that dares to suggest that maybe it's nobody else's business what shape a person is.

Except it is when it becomes a strain on the NHS and care system.

Well no. We accept that despite smoking being restricted in public places, it is still nobody's business whether someone smokes at home. And of course nobody wants *their* ability to buy an ice cream infringed: just those awful fat people.

For sure it's a public health issue that needs addressing, but I would suggest that sanctimonious finger wagging about how weak-willed or lacking in self-care people are is unlikely to be effective.

I think that covers the psychological side of things, but it doesn't change the biology. Finger-wagging in the face of being overweight being classed as bad doesn't change the need to manage calories in vs calories in order to achieve a healthy weight.

Well obviously. That bit is not in question. My point is that if anything finger wagging will make things worse. There are plenty of examples of bad public health messaging having a counterproductive effect. Remember the early AIDS adverts?

wallace_and_gromit

rjsterry said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

rjsterry said:

Dorset_Boy said:

rjsterry said:

No, sorry, I didn't read it.

Adverts for alcohol - a pretty big contributor to obesity - are everywhere. They have not been almost banned. I think you are overplaying the comparative impact of the odd Dove advert that dares to suggest that maybe it's nobody else's business what shape a person is.

Except it is when it becomes a strain on the NHS and care system.

Well no. We accept that despite smoking being restricted in public places, it is still nobody's business whether someone smokes at home. And of course nobody wants *their* ability to buy an ice cream infringed: just those awful fat people.

For sure it's a public health issue that needs addressing, but I would suggest that sanctimonious finger wagging about how weak-willed or lacking in self-care people are is unlikely to be effective.

I think that covers the psychological side of things, but it doesn't change the biology. Finger-wagging in the face of being overweight being classed as bad doesn't change the need to manage calories in vs calories in order to achieve a healthy weight.

My point is that if anything it will make things worse.

Quite possibly. It's not hard to imagine folk sticking two fingers up at the latest advisory from the "Obesity Tsar" whilst stuffing down a takeway and saying "Ha! That'll show 'em!" Sadly, it will show first on the scales.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

We also haven't got to the obesity > poverty correlation, but presumably some of you will just tie that into being feckless, weak-willed and lazy.

There's a lively debate to be had about the curious relationship between "poverty <=> not enough money" and "obesity <=> too many calories".

rick_chasey

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

We also haven't got to the obesity > poverty correlation, but presumably some of you will just tie that into being feckless, weak-willed and lazy.

There's a lively debate to be had about the curious relationship between "poverty <=> not enough money" and "obesity <=> too many calories".

Yes, FWIW rates of obesity in the poorest areas are double those in the richest areas, according to this https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/health-inequalities-and-obesity and it's worse for children.

(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

Takeaway aren't the issue. Calories are. Regardless of one's position in the income scale, one can always consume fewer calories. Doubtless there are many suffering the impacts of sometime having to choose whether to eat at all, but those impacts do not include obesity.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

wallace_and_gromit

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

Raw carrots say "Hello". Still my favourite veg. Though I prefer fruit.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

...
You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.
...

So the solution is 2 generations of unhealthy people.
I see other options. And this is about them, not me.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

That's not going to make you fat. Similarly, if you add some carrots, it won't magically make you lose weight.

aberdeen_lune

The correlation between wealth and obesity is crazy. In the west if you’re poor the cheapest food to buy is generally unhealthy and fast food is cheap and readily available. In the developing world unhealthy sugary refined food is expensive and fast food is very expensive so if you’re poor you can’t afford it. So you are forced to have healthy food and less meals.

In the developed world a lot of poor people are fat. In the developing world if you’re fat you must be well off.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

Smaller portions for you are your friend. It's cheaper too. What's not to like?

And honestly, I am superior at weight management than most.

TheBigBean

I feel like very few posters on this thread are overweight.

rick_chasey

Ja the arrogance is remarkable.

And that’s coming from me!

Pross

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

I get that argument but surely the reason the kids 'like' pizza and chips is because they've been fed it previously (or it is what all their friends eat). If kids are introduced to healthier foods from day one they won't know any different. Isn't it more likely that the parents grew up on the unhealthy diet and introduced it to the kids to start with?

FWIW I'm as guilty as anyone over the years in doing the 'give the kids what they want' thing so they'll eat but I reckon if you don't give them an alternative they'll eventually start to eat what's in front of them. I was a fussy eater as a kid and that's the approach that was taken on me along with sitting at the table until I'd finished. My wife's aunt was an expert at getting good stuff into kids without them realising what they were eating by making fun shapes etc.

TheBigBean

Can the healthy eating brigade give some example low cost, tasty, healthy meals that everyone should be eating?

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

I get that argument but surely the reason the kids 'like' pizza and chips is because they've been fed it previously (or it is what all their friends eat). If kids are introduced to healthier foods from day one they won't know any different. Isn't it more likely that the parents grew up on the unhealthy diet and introduced it to the kids to start with?

FWIW I'm as guilty as anyone over the years in doing the 'give the kids what they want' thing so they'll eat but I reckon if you don't give them an alternative they'll eventually start to eat what's in front of them. I was a fussy eater as a kid and that's the approach that was taken on me along with sitting at the table until I'd finished. My wife's aunt was an expert at getting good stuff into kids without them realising what they were eating by making fun shapes etc.

Yea but that all takes time!

People literally don’t have the time for that.

pangolin

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

I get that argument but surely the reason the kids 'like' pizza and chips is because they've been fed it previously (or it is what all their friends eat). If kids are introduced to healthier foods from day one they won't know any different. Isn't it more likely that the parents grew up on the unhealthy diet and introduced it to the kids to start with?

FWIW I'm as guilty as anyone over the years in doing the 'give the kids what they want' thing so they'll eat but I reckon if you don't give them an alternative they'll eventually start to eat what's in front of them. I was a fussy eater as a kid and that's the approach that was taken on me along with sitting at the table until I'd finished. My wife's aunt was an expert at getting good stuff into kids without them realising what they were eating by making fun shapes etc.

Good effort to admit you didn't manage it but assert that it is a viable strategy for most of the country.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

I feel like very few posters on this thread are overweight.

My doctor would tell you otherwise.

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

It's a censored situation, but that doesn't mean it's good parenting.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
(for those who think it's all takeaways, the summary also points out that "for one in five people in England, who are living in poverty, eating healthy food is secondary to eating at all.")

How many take the easy food preparation route above healthy? Yes, I am accusing some of being lazy. Veg can be had cheap. It just needs to be prepped and cooked.

So an example I was given was as follows.

You're a single mother, with a picky 4 year old.

You don't have enough money for the child to 'experiment' and not eat dinner - you're struggling to eat as it is, so you give the picky kid the stuff you know they're gonna eat - nuggets, chips pizza etc.

You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.

The snootiness of people who think it's just a matter of willpower is remarkable. Honestly, you are not superior just because you're not fat.

I get that argument but surely the reason the kids 'like' pizza and chips is because they've been fed it previously (or it is what all their friends eat). If kids are introduced to healthier foods from day one they won't know any different. Isn't it more likely that the parents grew up on the unhealthy diet and introduced it to the kids to start with?

FWIW I'm as guilty as anyone over the years in doing the 'give the kids what they want' thing so they'll eat but I reckon if you don't give them an alternative they'll eventually start to eat what's in front of them. I was a fussy eater as a kid and that's the approach that was taken on me along with sitting at the table until I'd finished. My wife's aunt was an expert at getting good stuff into kids without them realising what they were eating by making fun shapes etc.

Yea but that all takes time!

People literally don’t have the time for that.

Some people have the time to watch crap on TV. Priorities.
I made that bold for a reason.

wallace_and_gromit

rick_chasey said:

Ja the arrogance is remarkable.

And that’s coming from me!

Where's the arrogance? All I've said is that I've successfully managed my weight (within a fairly narrow range - 75kg-80kg) all my adult life and by definition I'm better at weight management than people who are overweight. Simply stating facts isn't arrogance. It might be tactless though.

rick_chasey

wallace_and_gromit said:

rick_chasey said:

Ja the arrogance is remarkable.

And that’s coming from me!

Where's the arrogance? All I've said is that I've successfully managed my weight (within a fairly narrow range - 75kg-80kg) all my adult life and by definition I'm better at weight management than people who are overweight. Simply stating facts isn't arrogance. It might be tactless though.

Because so many external factor seem to correlate to rates of obesity, I’d argue it’s more to do with your circumstances than anything instead in you.

So yes, attributing it to yourself probably is.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.
...

So the solution is 2 generations of unhealthy people.
I see other options. And this is about them, not me.

I'll expect your free cookery course this autumn.

FWIW, Jack Monroe has written extensively on eating well or as well as you can on a meagre budget, from direct experience. Worth reading.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.
...

So the solution is 2 generations of unhealthy people.
I see other options. And this is about them, not me.

I'll expect your free cookery course this autumn.

FWIW, Jack Monroe has written extensively on eating well or as well as you can on a meagre budget, from direct experience. Worth reading.

No point. Jack beat me to it. 😉
FWIW type ingredients that you have into Google and a recipe will be provided.

TheBigBean

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.
...

So the solution is 2 generations of unhealthy people.
I see other options. And this is about them, not me.

I'll expect your free cookery course this autumn.

FWIW, Jack Monroe has written extensively on eating well or as well as you can on a meagre budget, from direct experience. Worth reading.

No point. Jack beat me to it. 😉
FWIW type ingredients that you have into Google and a recipe will be provided.

Sure, but I want to judge people's idea of healthy food that is very low in calories and very satisfying.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
You don't have the time nor money to drum up a second meal so it's more efficient to just eat what they eat.
...

So the solution is 2 generations of unhealthy people.
I see other options. And this is about them, not me.

I'll expect your free cookery course this autumn.

FWIW, Jack Monroe has written extensively on eating well or as well as you can on a meagre budget, from direct experience. Worth reading.

No point. Jack beat me to it. 😉
FWIW type ingredients that you have into Google and a recipe will be provided.

Sure, but I want to judge people's idea of healthy food that is very low in calories and very satisfying.

Veggie paella?