The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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Faites vos jeux mesdames messieurs, that a ban on new ICE veehickles will actually happen in this dUK in 2030. In 7 years time. My view, as a green ecologist who will not glue himself to a road is No Effing Chance. That date is just politico babbling.0
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Stevo_666 said:
I see your point but if people can't afford to buy them that's a big problem.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Per the article, the main reason for the high cost of these cars is the battery.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Economics is a factor:briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
I just don't get the thing with big cars at all. And especially with EVs, it's nuts.
https://thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11665917/Kia-boss-Cheap-small-electric-cars-not-viable-high-battery-costs.html
If we stick to 2030 for banning ICE cars this could see a lot of people priced out of new cars. Every cloud etc...
Thanks, though from the energy-efficiency POV it's still nuts to justify the cost of the battery by sticking it in an expensive (and heavy) car.
Indeed, but that's letting economics trump energy efficiency, which is the point I'm trying to make.
Yup, though in my case I'd go car club.0 -
Agree that progress is pretty glacial but looking at, say, Germany divesting itself of Russian gas, or some aspects of the Covid response it is apparent that when push comes to shove things can be done quickly. Not sure what would provide a similar impetus but softly softly isn't going to cut it.Stevo_666 said:
Trouble is, 2030 appears to be insufficient time to prepare for the ICE ban. They should put it back to allow for proper prep, building the charging infrastructure etc.rjsterry said:
The level of denial that us all continuing to run on fossil fuels will not have any negative impacts on *us* is really quite something.First.Aspect said:
Bit of everything. There's no silver bullet.rick_chasey said:
Right.First.Aspect said:
Its not working. The effect will be to drive costs of second hand cars.rick_chasey said:
I think the hope (and I think it is a hope) from the regulators is by forcing the issue they incentivise efforts to bring the costs down.Stevo_666 said:
Economics is a factor:briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
I just don't get the thing with big cars at all. And especially with EVs, it's nuts.
https://thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11665917/Kia-boss-Cheap-small-electric-cars-not-viable-high-battery-costs.html
If we stick to 2030 for banning ICE cars this could see a lot of people priced out of new cars. Every cloud etc...
In theory, scarcity of resources aside, they are simpler machines that ought to be easier to run.
That's why I've been banging on about non-car solutions.
There are good reasons why the regulators across the west have put in these time lines for fossil fuel cars, right?
But similarly, the battery powered car is not going to be able to replace the fossil fuel car effectively.
So what's the solution?
The 2030 deadline for personal vehicles needs looking at though. "The market" is not sentient and there will be unnecessary hardship if the UK just trundles head long into a transport crisis. Either the deadline needs to go back or more proactive policies to facilitate electrification need to be put in place.
Unfortunately we have a zombie government so it will be at least 2025-2026 before any adults sit down and assess the scale of the problem. A mad panic with 4 years to go, or a last minute deadline extension, are far from ideal outcomes.
And you'll note that there's no comment in that about trains. That's because it doesn't seem to be on the agenda.
The active travel budget as a percentage of total transport budget will stay down at less than the percentage of active journeys as well, I'd have thought. Because people don't like cyclists.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.0 -
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
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Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.0 -
And one of those grid issues is getting it from Scotland to England, so you'll be fine.1
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Simply buy a nearly new ICE car in 2029 before demand makes costs skyrocket and you'll be fine till 2040 at least. Things will have improved by then. won't they?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.0 -
We were quite happy with 2040 as a cutover until pretty recently. I think that was Boris' fault that it was changed to 2030 - and as we know he got everything wrong.rjsterry said:
Agree that progress is pretty glacial but looking at, say, Germany divesting itself of Russian gas, or some aspects of the Covid response it is apparent that when push comes to shove things can be done quickly. Not sure what would provide a similar impetus but softly softly isn't going to cut it.Stevo_666 said:
Trouble is, 2030 appears to be insufficient time to prepare for the ICE ban. They should put it back to allow for proper prep, building the charging infrastructure etc.rjsterry said:
The level of denial that us all continuing to run on fossil fuels will not have any negative impacts on *us* is really quite something.First.Aspect said:
Bit of everything. There's no silver bullet.rick_chasey said:
Right.First.Aspect said:
Its not working. The effect will be to drive costs of second hand cars.rick_chasey said:
I think the hope (and I think it is a hope) from the regulators is by forcing the issue they incentivise efforts to bring the costs down.Stevo_666 said:
Economics is a factor:briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
I just don't get the thing with big cars at all. And especially with EVs, it's nuts.
https://thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11665917/Kia-boss-Cheap-small-electric-cars-not-viable-high-battery-costs.html
If we stick to 2030 for banning ICE cars this could see a lot of people priced out of new cars. Every cloud etc...
In theory, scarcity of resources aside, they are simpler machines that ought to be easier to run.
That's why I've been banging on about non-car solutions.
There are good reasons why the regulators across the west have put in these time lines for fossil fuel cars, right?
But similarly, the battery powered car is not going to be able to replace the fossil fuel car effectively.
So what's the solution?
The 2030 deadline for personal vehicles needs looking at though. "The market" is not sentient and there will be unnecessary hardship if the UK just trundles head long into a transport crisis. Either the deadline needs to go back or more proactive policies to facilitate electrification need to be put in place.
Unfortunately we have a zombie government so it will be at least 2025-2026 before any adults sit down and assess the scale of the problem. A mad panic with 4 years to go, or a last minute deadline extension, are far from ideal outcomes.
And you'll note that there's no comment in that about trains. That's because it doesn't seem to be on the agenda.
The active travel budget as a percentage of total transport budget will stay down at less than the percentage of active journeys as well, I'd have thought. Because people don't like cyclists."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I will either keep my current car, look after it well and watch it become a classic (quite likely now its' successor is a 2l 4cyl hybrid), or buy a 'last hurrah' in 2029. By time they need to be replaced with a fancy milk float I'll probably be too old to care.pblakeney said:Simply buy a nearly new ICE car in 2029 before demand makes costs skyrocket and you'll be fine till 2040 at least. Things will have improved by then. won't they?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Good luck with that out in the sticks.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I see your point but if people can't afford to buy them that's a big problem.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Per the article, the main reason for the high cost of these cars is the battery.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Economics is a factor:briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
I just don't get the thing with big cars at all. And especially with EVs, it's nuts.
https://thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11665917/Kia-boss-Cheap-small-electric-cars-not-viable-high-battery-costs.html
If we stick to 2030 for banning ICE cars this could see a lot of people priced out of new cars. Every cloud etc...
Thanks, though from the energy-efficiency POV it's still nuts to justify the cost of the battery by sticking it in an expensive (and heavy) car.
Indeed, but that's letting economics trump energy efficiency, which is the point I'm trying to make.
Yup, though in my case I'd go car club."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
My prediction is that there will have to be a delay because we are unlikely to be ready.orraloon said:Faites vos jeux mesdames messieurs, that a ban on new ICE veehickles will actually happen in this dUK in 2030. In 7 years time. My view, as a green ecologist who will not glue himself to a road is No Effing Chance. That date is just politico babbling.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Good luck with that out in the sticks.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I see your point but if people can't afford to buy them that's a big problem.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Per the article, the main reason for the high cost of these cars is the battery.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Economics is a factor:briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
I just don't get the thing with big cars at all. And especially with EVs, it's nuts.
https://thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11665917/Kia-boss-Cheap-small-electric-cars-not-viable-high-battery-costs.html
If we stick to 2030 for banning ICE cars this could see a lot of people priced out of new cars. Every cloud etc...
Thanks, though from the energy-efficiency POV it's still nuts to justify the cost of the battery by sticking it in an expensive (and heavy) car.
Indeed, but that's letting economics trump energy efficiency, which is the point I'm trying to make.
Yup, though in my case I'd go car club.
Maybe there's room for creative thinking and small-scale car sharing in such places, under the umbrella of some techy enabling umbrella organisation. It's not beyond the wit of man or woman, given how apps have made so many things possible. I've been genuinely surprised at the rapid roll-out and expansion of CoCars, CoVans, and CoBikes in Exeter, so it does give hope for the future for creative solutions in shared ownership.
If you worked out what percentage of time the average car spent parked up slowly decomposing, it would be rather low, I think. And you could use dynamic pricing to encourage people to plan to drive at less popular times, etc.0 -
The cars are not parked in high rises though, so the chargers will be wherever they are parked, so either in car parks, garages or the streetFirst.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.
I was intrigued about costs, so looked it up.
The one on the street near me is £4/month plus 46p/kWh. This compares to 35p/kWh on the price cap. A neighbour of mine chooses the charger over her garage, but that probably relates to a storage requirement. The charger can be booked on an app.
There are also lamppost charges. The company doesn't state the price, but says £20 should be enough for 45kWh. There are quite a few of these. Also needs an app which is different to the one above. Can see that would be annoying.
Suspect they are partially subsidised by the council.
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No, I think he got that bit right. It's a shame he is such a car crash otherwise, because if he could sell the steaming turd of Brexit he could persuade the country to get to net zero.Stevo_666 said:
We were quite happy with 2040 as a cutover until pretty recently. I think that was Boris' fault that it was changed to 2030 - and as we know he got everything wrong.rjsterry said:
Agree that progress is pretty glacial but looking at, say, Germany divesting itself of Russian gas, or some aspects of the Covid response it is apparent that when push comes to shove things can be done quickly. Not sure what would provide a similar impetus but softly softly isn't going to cut it.Stevo_666 said:
Trouble is, 2030 appears to be insufficient time to prepare for the ICE ban. They should put it back to allow for proper prep, building the charging infrastructure etc.rjsterry said:
The level of denial that us all continuing to run on fossil fuels will not have any negative impacts on *us* is really quite something.First.Aspect said:
Bit of everything. There's no silver bullet.rick_chasey said:
Right.First.Aspect said:
Its not working. The effect will be to drive costs of second hand cars.rick_chasey said:
I think the hope (and I think it is a hope) from the regulators is by forcing the issue they incentivise efforts to bring the costs down.Stevo_666 said:
Economics is a factor:briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
I just don't get the thing with big cars at all. And especially with EVs, it's nuts.
https://thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11665917/Kia-boss-Cheap-small-electric-cars-not-viable-high-battery-costs.html
If we stick to 2030 for banning ICE cars this could see a lot of people priced out of new cars. Every cloud etc...
In theory, scarcity of resources aside, they are simpler machines that ought to be easier to run.
That's why I've been banging on about non-car solutions.
There are good reasons why the regulators across the west have put in these time lines for fossil fuel cars, right?
But similarly, the battery powered car is not going to be able to replace the fossil fuel car effectively.
So what's the solution?
The 2030 deadline for personal vehicles needs looking at though. "The market" is not sentient and there will be unnecessary hardship if the UK just trundles head long into a transport crisis. Either the deadline needs to go back or more proactive policies to facilitate electrification need to be put in place.
Unfortunately we have a zombie government so it will be at least 2025-2026 before any adults sit down and assess the scale of the problem. A mad panic with 4 years to go, or a last minute deadline extension, are far from ideal outcomes.
And you'll note that there's no comment in that about trains. That's because it doesn't seem to be on the agenda.
The active travel budget as a percentage of total transport budget will stay down at less than the percentage of active journeys as well, I'd have thought. Because people don't like cyclists.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Perhaps it's a local issue.
This is the first thing that popped up
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-electric-vehicle-charging-network-25150874.amp
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No worse than the 5 different parking apps I apparently need.TheBigBean said:
The cars are not parked in high rises though, so the chargers will be wherever they are parked, so either in car parks, garages or the streetFirst.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.
I was intrigued about costs, so looked it up.
The one on the street near me is £4/month plus 46p/kWh. This compares to 35p/kWh on the price cap. A neighbour of mine chooses the charger over her garage, but that probably relates to a storage requirement. The charger can be booked on an app.
There are also lamppost charges. The company doesn't state the price, but says £20 should be enough for 45kWh. There are quite a few of these. Also needs an app which is different to the one above. Can see that would be annoying.
Suspect they are partially subsidised by the council.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That's pretty good for someone that doesn't drive.rjsterry said:
No worse than the 5 different parking apps I apparently need.TheBigBean said:
The cars are not parked in high rises though, so the chargers will be wherever they are parked, so either in car parks, garages or the streetFirst.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.
I was intrigued about costs, so looked it up.
The one on the street near me is £4/month plus 46p/kWh. This compares to 35p/kWh on the price cap. A neighbour of mine chooses the charger over her garage, but that probably relates to a storage requirement. The charger can be booked on an app.
There are also lamppost charges. The company doesn't state the price, but says £20 should be enough for 45kWh. There are quite a few of these. Also needs an app which is different to the one above. Can see that would be annoying.
Suspect they are partially subsidised by the council.1 -
Look the main benefit of electric cars is being able to charge from home. Or where you park of an evening. If they crack that for the majority and prices come down a bit, going electric is a no brainer. But they have to make it easy for people to charge where they park, and soon. Shitty trial schemes with local councillors standing next to them saying the future is here, that's not going to cut it. They've got to be everywhere and they have to actually work.0
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In case anyone is interested. This is what a lamppost charger looks like.
I've got sidetracked as everyone should be giving up their cars, so chargers are not required.
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Much as some might want that, it's not a realistic prospect. The means of propulsion might change though.TheBigBean said:everyone should be giving up their cars, so chargers are not required.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
On topic, this area of Freiburg always interested me. I'd allow some greenfield development for that sort of thing.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90327301/what-can-we-learn-from-this-thriving-car-free-german-neighborhood-get-rid-of-parking-spaces2 -
Wife drives, I navigate, book parking, etc. Mainly from holidays in East Devon. Each district council seems to have subbed out to a different provider.TheBigBean said:
That's pretty good for someone that doesn't drive.rjsterry said:
No worse than the 5 different parking apps I apparently need.TheBigBean said:
The cars are not parked in high rises though, so the chargers will be wherever they are parked, so either in car parks, garages or the streetFirst.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.
I was intrigued about costs, so looked it up.
The one on the street near me is £4/month plus 46p/kWh. This compares to 35p/kWh on the price cap. A neighbour of mine chooses the charger over her garage, but that probably relates to a storage requirement. The charger can be booked on an app.
There are also lamppost charges. The company doesn't state the price, but says £20 should be enough for 45kWh. There are quite a few of these. Also needs an app which is different to the one above. Can see that would be annoying.
Suspect they are partially subsidised by the council.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The biggest problem with chargers for on street is the number that will be needed. I get that not every car needs to be charged every night but if you have a street where both sides of the road are parked up nose to tail it is still going to need a lot.
That’s more street furniture on footways that are already too narrow to encourage pedestrian (and cycle) use. They also have to be near the kerb to avoid trailing over the path and creating trip hazards but they will then be more susceptible to being hit by vehicles on the road. Also, I’m not sure I’d want to leave my car charging where the local scrotes can unplug it for a laugh which I assume is quite easy.0 -
I have been wondering whether the cable from charger to car can be locked in at each end, because otherwise, after a drunken night out, they will be unplugged.
Anyone in the know?0 -
1 in 6 new cars sold are electric. The demand is already there.First.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.0 -
Hello Richwhitebloke1, I don't know for sure, but some poor people buy cars off other people after they need hoovering out, and that 5 out of 6 new cars are generally cheaper than electric cars in the first place, and way, way cheaper second hand. I'd hate to only be able to afford one of those. Cheers, Richwhitebloke2.rick_chasey said:
1 in 6 new cars sold are electric. The demand is already there.First.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.0 -
I haven't come here to argue for electric cars, tbf. I just thought I'd correct you - you know, share the love you give meFirst.Aspect said:
Hello Richwhitebloke1, I don't know for sure, but some poor people buy cars off other people after they need hoovering out, and that 5 out of 6 new cars are generally cheaper than electric cars in the first place, and way, way cheaper second hand. I'd hate to only be able to afford one of those. Cheers, Richwhitebloke2.rick_chasey said:
1 in 6 new cars sold are electric. The demand is already there.First.Aspect said:
Fair point. Not so much talking about remote communities as flats and high rises.TheBigBean said:
Remote communities already have electricity so there is no need to lay cables in the way there is for fibre optics. If there are cars and electricity there will be chargers.First.Aspect said:
Agree on the latter. Commercial vehicles will be the initial driver for hydrogen I'd have though, because there be money.TheBigBean said:
It's hard to imagine that supply won't meet demand. History is full of examples e.g. availability of diesel.First.Aspect said:
Good if it is, but I bet its popping up in rich areas, amd London and the SE way, way ahead of anywhere else.TheBigBean said:
We have on street charging just outside. It is popping up everywhere all the time.First.Aspect said:
Where the hell are all the chargers for people who live in flats, oe who dont have drives amd eho currently park on the street? (For example)
There is an issue with hydrogen in that there are very few pumps so no one will buy a hydrogen powered car. This is why the government has consulted on ways to establish a market at almost any cost. Unfortunately the change in PM has shifted focus on this.
The former is not the way to go about it, because it will create a situation like we've had with Internet connectivity, and leave anyone outside of the "demand" completely screwed for the best part of a generation.
The grid does need a serious upgrade, but that's another issue.
I've not seen any residential street charging here. Not that I've spent thst much time wandering about the schemes.
The demand isn't there because the cars are too expensive and they can't get them charged cheaply even if they can afford a car. Public charging is borderline theft from what I can tell.
The thinking behind the switch is once you reach a critical mass for demand, the costs will likely tumble.
I suspect they won't, because of scarcity issues. That's why I'm proposing a more concerted effort to provide the right infrastructure for alternatives.
I believe it's likely that the cost of car travel will continue to rise, so all the more reason to start thinking about sensible alternatives, as eventually it will be prohibitively expensive to use a car.
Currently, as you all keep telling me (as if I don't know) that's a problem, because the entire system relies on most people being able to drive places.
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The electric car market I would guess is largely being ‘fuelled’ (ahem) by the company car brigade due to the BIK.
Read an interesting article about JCB’s hydrogen/diesel engine. Looks like the future for construction.0
