The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s more if you’re working on sustainable solutions that don’t involve the car, for reasons stated above, given that 80%of people live in urban areas it makes sense to get those urbanites out of cars first, right?

Yes.

Just for a sense of proportion, 20% is roughly 12m people though. That's quite a few. This isn't an either/or. Ditch the "I don't give a fig about the few people who live outside of towns" and you might get a more constructive discussion about how priorities might be met.

I'm quite happy for car driving in towns to be made the least attractive option.

I never said it’s an either or but the problems with cars don’t go away just because you want them to.

You were suggesting policies for the 80% be applied everywhere, and the rural 20% could stuff it. At least that's how it came across.

The ideas for towns and cities aren't particularly contentious in themselves.

If we assume private cars are not sustainable, electric or otherwise, what solution do you propose for the countryside?

You're making an assumption that all car based transport is unsustainable and going from there. Assumption is the mother of something or other, so I've heard.

You're seeing "private cars" and reading "all car based transport".

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s more if you’re working on sustainable solutions that don’t involve the car, for reasons stated above, given that 80%of people live in urban areas it makes sense to get those urbanites out of cars first, right?

Yes.

Just for a sense of proportion, 20% is roughly 12m people though. That's quite a few. This isn't an either/or. Ditch the "I don't give a fig about the few people who live outside of towns" and you might get a more constructive discussion about how priorities might be met.

I'm quite happy for car driving in towns to be made the least attractive option.

I never said it’s an either or but the problems with cars don’t go away just because you want them to.

You were suggesting policies for the 80% be applied everywhere, and the rural 20% could stuff it. At least that's how it came across.

The ideas for towns and cities aren't particularly contentious in themselves.

If we assume private cars are not sustainable, electric or otherwise, what solution do you propose for the countryside?

You're making an assumption that all car based transport is unsustainable and going from there. Assumption is the mother of something or other, so I've heard.

You're seeing "private cars" and reading "all car based transport".

Ricks car is a private one I think.

However I'd let Rick clarify what he means. Combined with an explantation of the rules on who can access this car based transport and when etc.

First.Aspect

I asked Rick a chemistry question. He's away looking it up right now.

TheBigBean

I don't have a car. My valuable contribution to the thread.

First.Aspect

I don't have children, so I have at least a 50% sustainability head start on most people.

That's my contribution.

Stevo_666

Good luck to anyone trying to persuade the general public to give up their private means of transportation any time soon. A big flaw in the plan is that most people really don't want to.

briantrumpet

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Stevo_666

Apparently one of the biggest environmental impacts is having kids. So those of you who haven't already reproduced, save the planet and get the snip.

Then what about foreign holidays to places like Italy. Surely not sustainable in the long term?

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

We could all start with eschewing citrus fruit and other imported products... like wine.... and eating seasonally and locally. That means haggis or fermented fish for the next couple of months for me. Haggis it is then.

First.Aspect

Actually, a sizeable proportion of the population will need to emigrate. Great Britain can't sustain a population of 60 million.

Stevo_666

First.Aspect said:

Actually, a sizeable proportion of the population will need to emigrate. Great Britain can't sustain a population of 60 million.

Pretty sure a lot of people would jump ship if they had to take buses everywhere.

kingstongraham

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Everyone living as subsistence farmers sounds a slightly more difficult sell than just eliminating private car use.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Everyone living as subsistence farmers sounds a slightly more difficult sell than just eliminating private car use.

Surely you can turn your garden into an allotment?

First.Aspect

Channel your inner Richard Bryers everyone.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Everyone living as subsistence farmers sounds a slightly more difficult sell than just eliminating private car use.

Surely you can turn your garden into an allotment?

The flaw in that proposal is anything I try to grow just dies, so I would also.

Can't we just have drones to help the left behind yokels who will make my food get to the farm?

First.Aspect

Drones aren't sustainable.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

Drones aren't sustainable.

Sustainable future drones then.

kingstongraham

Actually, since there's going to need to be roads to get my food out from the farms, they could have drones that stay on the ground and use the same route to the farm as the larger vehicles. Maybe they would have to start off as non-autonomous.

katani

MattFalle said:

and what about some village say in the Highlands with 300 people?

what does Rick decree must happen to them?

They will get depopulated to a population of 0 eventually anyway. Young residents move to urban areas to do college or university degrees and never come back. Old generations die off.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

Drones aren't sustainable.

Sustainable future drones then.

What are you going to live on in the mean time?

Potatoes are quite easy to grow. Unless you are in a new build with about 5mm of top soil, in which case you will have to move to the countryside in order to survive.

kingstongraham

katani said:

MattFalle said:

and what about some village say in the Highlands with 300 people?

what does Rick decree must happen to them?

They will get depopulated to a population of 0 eventually anyway. Young residents move to urban areas to do college or university degrees and never come back. Old generations die off.

Sometimes they move out when they get old, ready to die.

First.Aspect

katani said:

MattFalle said:

and what about some village say in the Highlands with 300 people?

what does Rick decree must happen to them?

They will get depopulated to a population of 0 eventually anyway. Young residents move to urban areas to do college or university degrees and never come back. Old generations die off.

The SNP wants to industrialise the Highlands.

Step 1. Industrialised Highlands.

Step 3. Profit.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Everyone living as subsistence farmers sounds a slightly more difficult sell than just eliminating private car use.

Actually, they are trying to develop the idea of localism massively here (the Drôme Valley), and why hippy Parisians who can WFH have been pushing up property prices: there's heavy promotion of local producers and organic produce, and there's a weekly market in most of the bigger villages. Mind you, it does help that they can grow everything from potatoes and pigs to peaches and wine... slightly more appealing than a year-round diet of swedes and turnips.

It's also notable that two of the local supermarkets here stock really locally-sourced food. It's a pity that's not more of a thing in the UK.

First.Aspect

Step 0 was buy a loss making shipyard and demonstrate proof of concept by making more of a loss.

webboo

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Everyone living as subsistence farmers sounds a slightly more difficult sell than just eliminating private car use.

Actually, they are trying to develop the idea of localism massively here (the Drôme Valley), and why hippy Parisians who can WFH have been pushing up property prices: there's heavy promotion of local producers and organic produce, and there's a weekly market in most of the bigger villages. Mind you, it does help that they can grow everything from potatoes and pigs to peaches and wine... slightly more appealing than a year-round diet of swedes and turnips.

It's also notable that two of the local supermarkets here stock really locally-sourced food. It's a pity that's not more of a thing in the UK.

Might be ok if you live in Lincolnshire or similar not much good if you live in upland or moorlands. Unless you like mutton.

MattFalle

rick_chasey said:

I’m not going to engage with you Matt because I think you’re a knob and a troll. ✌🏻

In an ideal world I’d just mute you but the new forum doesn’t have that feature.

or is it because someone is calling out your fuckingridiculous dinner party ideas that are totally unworkable and unrealistic?

so far you want to get rid of the countryside, cars, people who live in the country, vans and anything that makes getting around easy.

ever tried getting a wheelchair, mobility scooter, etc on and off public transport? you should know how bad it is with a pram, let alone anything else.

you're not going to engage because you can't - no debating skills, no knowledge,no life experience. statements and fuckallelse.

total fella

First.Aspect

On behalf of everyone else, I'm all in favour of keeping children off public transport.

MattFalle

how are you going to finance your 24/7/365 piblic transport with security guards because I for one don't want my wife or daughter going to a night shift/coming home from a eve shift on a randomfuckingbus by themselves.

and they ain't electric biking in the winter months.

how about OAPs? People carrying bags? school kids doing activities? parents with multiple kids?

fuckingmoronic

pangolin

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I’m not going to engage with you Matt because I think you’re a knob and a troll. ✌🏻

In an ideal world I’d just mute you but the new forum doesn’t have that feature.

or is it because someone is calling out your fuckingridiculous dinner party ideas that are totally unworkable and unrealistic?

so far you want to get rid of the countryside, cars, people who live in the country, vans and anything that makes getting around easy.

ever tried getting a wheelchair, mobility scooter, etc on and off public transport? you should know how bad it is with a pram, let alone anything else.

you're not going to engage because you can't - no debating skills, no knowledge,no life experience. statements and fuckallelse.

total fella

He's not engaging because the 3 questions you asked were nonsense

pangolin

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

briantrumpet said:

If we're talking 'unsustainable', every one of us ought to be looking at what we buy at the supermarket: for our convenience, food is being harvested in various countries' countryside, and being transported to the places where they dont grow much food: towns.

My own modest proposal would be, since obviously big lorries hurtling all over the place are unsustainable, would be that people move t where food is produced: the countryside, and live on a diet of potatoes and mangelwurzels.

Everyone living as subsistence farmers sounds a slightly more difficult sell than just eliminating private car use.

Surely you can turn your garden into an allotment?

The flaw in that proposal is anything I try to grow just dies, so I would also.

Can't we just have drones to help the left behind yokels who will make my food get to the farm?

This is a feature of the plan, not a flaw. Overpopulation sorted.