The actual I am watching the World Cup thread. No, non World Cup watchers please. Spoilers.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

rick_chasey

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

I dunno, the most vocal critics I hear are people who watch the Prem week-in-week-out.

They think it's too basic, not sophisticated enough, not attacking enough, too slow blah blah.

kingstongraham

I'm happy now Foden is undroppable.

TheBigBean

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

What about fans of Middlesbrough?

MidlandsGrimpeur2

What about fans of Middlesbrough?

A good mate is a 'boro fan. To be fair he now admits Southgate is an excellent England Manager but will never forgive him for his stint at the Riverside!

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

I dunno, the most vocal critics I hear are people who watch the Prem week-in-week-out.

They think it's too basic, not sophisticated enough, not attacking enough, too slow blah blah.

I think the criticisms are fair but also driven by a belief that we are better than we are.

I think Southgate's has been lucky in the teams we have been drawn to play and now he has got lucky and played his best team when it was blindingly obvious that Grealish/Sterling should not be in the starting 11.

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

I dunno, the most vocal critics I hear are people who watch the Prem week-in-week-out.

They think it's too basic, not sophisticated enough, not attacking enough, too slow blah blah.

To be fair, watching week in week out doesn't actually make you an expert...

With my non expert, not watching week in week out, hat on, I think games like the one against the USA show some issues with the England side.

The first few minutes against Senegal were also a bit uninspired.

Having said that, I think we've got a good solid team, and generally the manager seems to make good decisions, and most of the time they play pretty well.

surrey_commuter

Jezyboy said:

rick_chasey said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

I dunno, the most vocal critics I hear are people who watch the Prem week-in-week-out.

They think it's too basic, not sophisticated enough, not attacking enough, too slow blah blah.

To be fair, watching week in week out doesn't actually make you an expert...

With my non expert, not watching week in week out, hat on, I think games like the one against the USA show some issues with the England side.

The first few minutes against Senegal were also a bit uninspired.

Having said that, I think we've got a good solid team, and generally the manager seems to make good decisions, and most of the time they play pretty well.

This is a good summary that coupled with no outstanding side in the tournament gives us our best opportunity so far in my lifetime

Pross

I guess it comes down to the old conundrum of whether supporters want a team that plays to their strengths and wins or tries to play entertaining football and loses. Obviously most want entertaining, winning football but that isn't often viable.

kingstongraham

Now it's settled down to Foden and Saka/Rashford wide of Kane and Bellingham, playing to the strengths of that lot is entertaining, attacking football.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

I guess it comes down to the old conundrum of whether supporters want a team that plays to their strengths and wins or tries to play entertaining football and loses. Obviously most want entertaining, winning football but that isn't often viable.

with the players we have the logical thing was always to set up like City/Arsenal. Back four protected by two holding midfield players at least one of who can step out and play the ball. Then a centre forward with two fast forwards either side who also track back and the last guy linking them with the sitting two.

This plays to our strengths, is entertaining and a ssytem that is not reinventing the wheel

feelgoodlost

Urgh... all that amazing effort throughout the tournament from Japan to go out with those woeful penalties.

crescent

Dreadful penalties from Japan. A shame to see them go out, as they were really entertaining to watch.

DeVlaeminck

rick_chasey said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I still don't get the stick he gets, he's done a great job

I think it comes from two angles.

1) your average part time England fan, the kind who rarely follows football and as a result thinks England should go and attack and win every game, with no real understanding how football actually works.

2) those who don't like Southgate and what he stands for. There are a lot of d11ckheads out there who don't like the fact he is an intelligent, well spoken, morally and socially conscious bloke. The fact he has built a young, culturally diverse team that speaks up on social issues really irks them. I think you know what type of idiot I am referring to, they don't like Southgate and dress it up as footballing critique when it is nothing of the sort.

I dunno, the most vocal critics I hear are people who watch the Prem week-in-week-out.

They think it's too basic, not sophisticated enough, not attacking enough, too slow blah blah.

A lot comes from the last WC when Croatia had clearly got on top and he didn't change it - this isn't just fans criticised him for that the pundits did too.

I don't think he's a great manager - I think he's ok - he is clearly good at creating a good spirit in the squad and getting players wanting to play for England. Tactically I do think he's found wanting at times because basically he's too scared of losing that he doesn't try and win - it's like bike racing sometimes you have to risk losing to actually win.

Are we better now than the 1980s and 90s when we often went out to the eventual winners (ok not always) - I'd say no - we are about the same.

To be fair I think the approach has been more positive this tournament - a back 4 instead of a 5 (I don't mind a 5 if it's to push the WBs on and get the CBs on the front foot but England played it as an extra defender for security) - Bellingham in the midfield and even with Henderson in he looks to be given more freedom.

As for the accusation people are against him being woke - some probably are but given they bottled wearing the armband I do feel he was full of it talking about their principles and how they were willing to walk off the pitch etc.

First.Aspect

Did you hear what FIFA did to the six national teams who were proposing to wear it? The basically sent a delegation to each and threatened them politely with unlimited sanctions. So it wasn't just a potential yellow card for Harry, it was potential expulsion from the tournament.

As.time goes on I suspect we will learn more and more rumours about FIFA being the Qatari's messengers. And there is clearly a tug of war going on about fans wearing anything that might be considered to be a rainbow.

kingstongraham

Look at the difference in the goalies for the penalties. The Croatia keeper is already moving forward to narrow the angle when the ball is kicked (while keeping one foot on the line). He does really well.

bikes_and_dogs

After spending the last 24 hours watching England win at football and cricket, I think that there is a case for Gareth Southgate to adopt the Bazball attitude of the England cricket team.
In both football and cricket, conventional tactics have been analysed to death. Games between well coached skilful teams often turn into a stand-off. Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum have won by taking a chance with unorthodox tactics and crucially, high end professionals.
Gareth Southgate strikes me as a progressive sort and I think he should tap into the England cricket team.

tailwindhome

Brazil battering Korea 4-0 after 35 mins.

MattFalle

Brazil

Oh my word

They're quite good. Its like watching the MFs play before all their knees fell off.

orraloon

D'ye reckon Brazil might win tonight's match? 😳

pblakeney

Brazil are the better team and deserve to be in the lead.
I still have a sneaky suspicion that the ref has a newly acquired property in Rio.

MattFalle

orraloon said:

D'ye reckon Brazil might win tonight's match? 😳

i think they'll edge it, just.

May go down to pens overall though.

Dorset_Boy

I think South Korea have forgotten how to defend. Their manager got his tactics so wrong in the first half, I think they were from a different sport.

Stevo_666

MattFalle

Korean comeback starts here....

MattFalle

Brazil sub 'keeper lets in 4 in 4.

Now that would be a stand out moment.

DeVlaeminck

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

I guess it comes down to the old conundrum of whether supporters want a team that plays to their strengths and wins or tries to play entertaining football and loses. Obviously most want entertaining, winning football but that isn't often viable.

with the players we have the logical thing was always to set up like City/Arsenal. Back four protected by two holding midfield players at least one of who can step out and play the ball. Then a centre forward with two fast forwards either side who also track back and the last guy linking them with the sitting two.

This plays to our strengths, is entertaining and a ssytem that is not reinventing the wheel

Yes except England don't give the FBs anything like the same freedom.

First.Aspect said:

Did you hear what FIFA did to the six national teams who were proposing to wear it? The basically sent a delegation to each and threatened them politely with unlimited sanctions. So it wasn't just a potential yellow card for Harry, it was potential expulsion from the tournament.

As.time goes on I suspect we will learn more and more rumours about FIFA being the Qatari's messengers. And there is clearly a tug of war going on about fans wearing anything that might be considered to be a rainbow.

Yes - and I really doubt they'd have carried that threat through but if they had so be it I thought some things more important than football.

DeVlaeminck

kingstongraham said:

Look at the difference in the goalies for the penalties. The Croatia keeper is already moving forward to narrow the angle when the ball is kicked (while keeping one foot on the line). He does really well.

Credit to the Croatian keeper but for once I think Shearer's back to basics punditry summed it up - what's wrong with picking a spot and putting your foot through it?

I do admire players who can wait for the keeper to move and put it in the other side but for the majority they'd do better hitting it hard. The Japanese must be sick that it was such an anti climax but hopefully tomorrow they take the positives out of their performances.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I do admire players who can wait for the keeper to move and put it in the other side but for the majority they'd do better hitting it hard.

It was weird, the Japanese players didn't seem to wait for the keeper to move it was just like they had picked a side and hoped the keeper went the other way!

Interesting on commentary that the Japanese FA have set a target of Japan winning a World Cup by 2050. As there has never been a winner or runner up outside of South American and European nations, I wonder if we will ever see one in our lifetimes?

First.Aspect

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

I guess it comes down to the old conundrum of whether supporters want a team that plays to their strengths and wins or tries to play entertaining football and loses. Obviously most want entertaining, winning football but that isn't often viable.

with the players we have the logical thing was always to set up like City/Arsenal. Back four protected by two holding midfield players at least one of who can step out and play the ball. Then a centre forward with two fast forwards either side who also track back and the last guy linking them with the sitting two.

This plays to our strengths, is entertaining and a ssytem that is not reinventing the wheel

Yes except England don't give the FBs anything like the same freedom.

First.Aspect said:

Did you hear what FIFA did to the six national teams who were proposing to wear it? The basically sent a delegation to each and threatened them politely with unlimited sanctions. So it wasn't just a potential yellow card for Harry, it was potential expulsion from the tournament.

As.time goes on I suspect we will learn more and more rumours about FIFA being the Qatari's messengers. And there is clearly a tug of war going on about fans wearing anything that might be considered to be a rainbow.

Yes - and I really doubt they'd have carried that threat through but if they had so be it I thought some things more important than football.

Oh stop virtue signalling. You are trying to argue that wearing a rainbow armband whilst kicking a ball around would make a blind bit of difference anyway.