Hilly Classics 2022 ***Spoilers***

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Comments

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,773
    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    Seems harsh if it was the correct decision.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,470
    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    He's been my favourite rider for a few years. Pure class. Looks great on a bike. Not an easy thing for a little fella
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,599
    What’s not to like about Kwiato?
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,616
    carbonclem said:

    What’s not to like about Kwiato?

    Yes quite. Really pleased for him today.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,391
    Good on ya Kwiato...

    To add to my original question, I even managed to forget to watch this. Luckily I was reminded without a spoiler though so could enjoy it properly.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,924
    DeadCalm said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    Sandbagged? Did you watch the same race as the rest of the world? Or just the last 400m?

    Kwia attacked at 22 kms to go and got the gap, before Cosnefoy bridged. They then shared the work to stay away.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    DeadCalm said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    🤷‍♂️ just asking, it's a forum.

    I thought he rode the race that was in front of him.

    Cosnefroy's post race interview was good I thought, very pragmatic.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,111
    Dorset_Boy said:

    DeadCalm said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    Sandbagged? Did you watch the same race as the rest of the world? Or just the last 400m?

    Kwia attacked at 22 kms to go and got the gap, before Cosnefoy bridged. They then shared the work to stay away.
    Completely agree. He could've played the team-mate-in-the-chase-behind card to force Cosnefroy to do more work, but he shared the pacemaking evenly until the final kilometre then cannily manoeuvred him to the front to lead out the sprint. Not a hint of sandbagging.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    edited April 2022
    It ended up with a rider who wins very occasionally, but when he does, he wins big, versus a team that wins very occasionally, but when they do, they win small.

    I had Cosnefroy in my fantasy team.
    I can still be happy that Little Flower had a rare chance to bloom.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,540
    Accusing Kwiato of sandbagging is one of the weirdest things I've read on here. He was one of the main drivers to get the split for the 11 man lead group, attacked solo from 22km out and rode hard then shared the work evenly throughout until well inside the final km.

    You don't very often get such an even man v man finish in a race like that and he just about edged it, either rider deserved it
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,687
    ^ agree
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,687
    Just watched (the last bit available on ES of) the women's race. Good win.
  • lettingthedaysgoby
    lettingthedaysgoby Posts: 1,732
    If a solo attack with 22km to go is sandbagging, I'd love to see what your definition of spirited riding is.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,692
    Weird discussion going on here. Thought it was a well timed move and shout out to Cosnefroy for getting up to him.

    I think we forget about how good Kwiat is given he's so often in service for someone else but he's very good. Good nose for when to attack - this one was reminiscent of his World's victory, albeit further out.

    Helps having Pidcock in the back blocking, though his attack was a bit odd. Has he explained that one?
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,326
    rick_chasey said:



    Helps having Pidcock in the back blocking, though his attack was a bit odd. Has he explained that one?

    That was quite weird and could have gone very wrong. I've not seen it again or heard him comment.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,773
    rick_chasey said:

    Weird discussion going on here. Thought it was a well timed move and shout out to Cosnefroy for getting up to him.

    I think we forget about how good Kwiat is given he's so often in service for someone else but he's very good. Good nose for when to attack - this one was reminiscent of his World's victory, albeit further out.

    Helps having Pidcock in the back blocking, though his attack was a bit odd. Has he explained that one?

    I wasn't watching so this is just a guess.
    Rush of blood to the head corrected by team orders?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 480
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,860
    edited April 2022
    I wanted cosnefoy to win. He made the strong solo move and kept the break away .... But ineos. Split the bunch and made the decisive selection ...really well . Stringing everyone out going into that climb. ineos deserve credit for that.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • 50x11
    50x11 Posts: 408
    DeadCalm said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    One of the greatest "worst cycling takes" I've ever read. You clearly didn't watch the race.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    edited April 2022
    Watch the interview with Kwiatkovski. He admitted that he was sandbagging. He took advantage of the fact that he had Pidcock behind*. Totally fair, but I don't have to like him for it.

    * in fact, he said that the reason he was so upset was because he thought he'd cost Pidcock the chance of the win.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    Direct quote from Kwiatkowski:

    "Being there with Cosnefroy, I had to let him do most of the work".
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    50x11 said:

    DeadCalm said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    One of the greatest "worst cycling takes" I've ever read. You clearly didn't watch the race.
    My "take" matches Kwiatkowski's. I certainly watched it. Did you?
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    mididoctors said:

    I wanted cosnefoy to win. He made the strong solo move and kept the break away .... But ineos. Split the bunch and made the decisive selection ...really well . Stringing everyone out going into that climb. ineos deserve credit for that.

    Yep. Agree with that.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,692
    DeadCalm said:

    Direct quote from Kwiatkowski:

    "Being there with Cosnefroy, I had to let him do most of the work".

    Quite right, lad's not stupid is he?
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,540
    DeadCalm said:

    Direct quote from Kwiatkowski:

    "Being there with Cosnefroy, I had to let him do most of the work".

    That's not sandbagging, sandbagging is pretending you're struggling to get the other person to do more than their fair share. Using the fact you're the only person with a team mate behind is just sound tactics and was earned by Ineos making the race and getting that position of strength.
  • 50x11
    50x11 Posts: 408
    DeadCalm said:

    50x11 said:

    DeadCalm said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Never liked Kwiatkovski. Like him even less now.

    What, for winning?

    Not sure what else he did wrong.
    I didn't realise I needed to justify my dislike of riders, but okay, I am not a fan of anyone who was a part of the Froome train. Today, he beat one of my favourite riders having sandbagged when the two were away. Additionally, I thought he showed zero class in victory. I also understand that others like and admire the guy. I've no issue with that.
    One of the greatest "worst cycling takes" I've ever read. You clearly didn't watch the race.
    My "take" matches Kwiatkowski's. I certainly watched it. Did you?
    No it doesn't you want it to but it doesn't.

    He didn't sandbag, he used tactics. Sandbagging is pretending you're tired, not using tactics to your advantage.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,154
    50x11 said:



    He didn't sandbag, he used tactics. Sandbagging is pretending you're tired, not using tactics to your advantage.

    Isn't sandbagging a tactic in itself though (one I have no problem with). Thomas Voeckler bagged more sand than B&Q during his career.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,132
    You use whatever tactics you can to help you win; that's how sport works. As long as you don't break any rules, anything goes........
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 530
    Cosnefroy won my respect.

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