Are the Iranians terrible at business?

pinno

Nazanin is on the plane home, so the Iranians must be happy with their £400m.

What is £400m in the 70's worth today and what about interest?

Purely rhetorical.

MattFalle

oxoman said:

Hopefully we've given them it back is useless censored . Roubles spring to mind.

why?

imposter2.0

pinno said:

Nazanin is on the plane home, so the Iranians must be happy with their £400m.

What is £400m in the 70's worth today and what about interest?

Purely rhetorical.

I’m sure the Iranians are pretty good at business. The debt was £400m, but I doubt if the full extent of the deal will ever be revealed..

Pross

Presumably it will be £400m that has been adjusted but the Government are spinning it so the number doesn't look so big.

International courts had ruled that the UK owed the money so it's not like they were negotiating generously. They did well to get something in return for money they already had to hand over.

DeVlaeminck

I should have used similar tactics when I had a dispute with Dave Hinde cycles.

Ben6899

Iran: “it’s not about the money”
UK Government: “it’s not about the money”

Money is handed over

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and Anoosheh Ashoori are freed by the Iranians and sent home.

MattFalle

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

masjer

It's surprising they are bad at business, since they are always trying to enrich stuff.

john80

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

We welched on an arms deal and refused to give them their money back.

Boris told the world she was in Iran training journalists.

If you pay off hostage takers they tend to keep coming back

Ben6899

Who else are on your list of “rogue states”, John?

john80

Ben6899 said:

Who else are on your list of “rogue states”, John?

Is Iran a particularly contentious rogue state? Do you feel they are being unfairly targeted by sanctions that will have been running for decades. I am pretty sure they are dead on. Hijacking ships in international waters or the waters of other states, downing a flight over Lockerbie. Funding rebels in Yemen. Continued capture of people on trumped up charges. The list is endless.

kingstongraham

john80 said:

Ben6899 said:

Who else are on your list of “rogue states”, John?

Is Iran a particularly contentious rogue state? Do you feel they are being unfairly targeted by sanctions that will have been running for decades. I am pretty sure they are dead on. Hijacking ships in international waters or the waters of other states, downing a flight over Lockerbie. Funding rebels in Yemen. Continued capture of people on trumped up charges. The list is endless.

Anyone else match some of that?

john80

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

We welched on an arms deal and refused to give them their money back.

Boris told the world she was in Iran training journalists.

If you pay off hostage takers they tend to keep coming back

We did not fulfil and arms deal due to international sanctions. I mean we could have carried out and been in breach of US sanctions with all the consequences that would have entailed but that might not have been in our interests.

When did training journalist even if this was true justify a 5 year sentence. Its not like he said she was an assassin.

You are right. Israel would have just made a few of their important people disappear on foreign soil and send them a note stating they will get them back as soon as X,Y&Z people are returned. Do you want to live in a country that does this type of stuff?

Ben6899

john80 said:

Ben6899 said:

Who else are on your list of “rogue states”, John?

Is Iran a particularly contentious rogue state? Do you feel they are being unfairly targeted by sanctions that will have been running for decades. I am pretty sure they are dead on. Hijacking ships in international waters or the waters of other states, downing a flight over Lockerbie. Funding rebels in Yemen. Continued capture of people on trumped up charges. The list is endless.

Kind of my point. It’s a moot list because of this.

imposter2.0

john80 said:

When did training journalist even if this was true justify a 5 year sentence. Its not like he said she was an assassin.

Because the contention at the time was that she was supposed to have been on holiday - not 'working' (ie teaching journalism)...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/06/boris-johnson-mistake-could-harm-case-for-nazanin-zaghari-ratcliffe-say-family

Pross

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

ugo.santalucia

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money, so you have to give it back... I guess this is a very basic principle.
If I owe money to a murderer, it's not that I can write off the debt, because he's been convicted... the law doesn't allow that

surrey_commuter

john80 said:

surrey_commuter said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

We welched on an arms deal and refused to give them their money back.

Boris told the world she was in Iran training journalists.

If you pay off hostage takers they tend to keep coming back

We did not fulfil and arms deal due to international sanctions. I mean we could have carried out and been in breach of US sanctions with all the consequences that would have entailed but that might not have been in our interests.

When did training journalist even if this was true justify a 5 year sentence. Its not like he said she was an assassin.

You are right. Israel would have just made a few of their important people disappear on foreign soil and send them a note stating they will get them back as soon as X,Y&Z people are returned. Do you want to live in a country that does this type of stuff?

we owed them £400m

The charge aganst her was that she was training journalists to work againstthe State. She claimed she was on holiday. Boris (for whatever reason) sided with Iran.

If you live in a country that does not deal with terrorists then you are less likely to be taken hostage but if you are already a hostage things won't look so rosy.

I am quite relaxed about the Israeli approach. Russsia's is more brutal, at the time Terry Waite was taken they also took some Russian hostages. Russia said nothing publicly but sent a list to the org responsible. It was a death list naming the kidnappers and their mothers, fathers, sister, brothers, aunts, uncles and cousins.

Say what you like about their methods but Russians don't get kidnapped

rick_chasey

Who knew states run by actual gangsters are good at dealing with gangster tactics.

TheBigBean

Not all about the money. There is a collective desire to revive the nuclear deal due to the Russia situation. Holding hostages, owing millions etc. were obstacles to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-60774839

pinno

In the whole scheme of things, the UK waited until the court delivered the verdict before paying the debt. Using that as some sort of excuse (vis-a-vis the delay) is pretty lame.
Also, I am pretty sure that the diplomatic avenue was to talk to the US and state that we had no choice and therefore, maintaining US relations.
It's not as if we aren't in constant dialogue with the US.

imposter2.0

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money

Iran's overseas assets (including this £400m) were frozen after the 1979 revolution, so 'giving it back' wasn't really an option back then. They still have hundreds of billions worldwide, which are still frozen...

pinno

TheBigBean said:

Not all about the money. There is a collective desire to revive the nuclear deal due to the Russia situation. Holding hostages, owing millions etc. were obstacles to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-60774839

When the Ruskies eventually start to rebuild, this couldl be an issue but economically, where are they going to be long term?
I doubt sanctions will be lifted quickly (if there is a cessation of conflict) given an opportunity to re-balance Western power.
As a major NATO economy, I would want to keep a foot on the head of Putin's aspirations whilst he barely treads water.

China will have a severely weakened ally. Let's keep it that way.

john80

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

john80

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money, so you have to give it back... I guess this is a very basic principle.
If I owe money to a murderer, it's not that I can write off the debt, because he's been convicted... the law doesn't allow that

Well I guess we can then ignore any sanction we like on this logic.

daniel_b

DeVlaeminck said:

I should have used similar tactics when I had a dispute with Dave Hinde cycles.

Hindesight is a wonderful thing.

TheBigBean

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

kingstongraham

oxoman said:

Given how long this has been going on all the governments since the deal was suspended have failed. That's Conservative and Labour. Either way the good thing is a family has there mum back.

Which deal?

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

No more nuts than Saudi or UAE.

Pross

DeVlaeminck said:

I should have used similar tactics when I had a dispute with Dave Hinde cycles.

To be fair Dave Hinde's response to customer complaints is far less diplomatic and rational than anything Iran would do.