Are the Iranians terrible at business?

TheBigBean

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

No more nuts than Saudi or UAE.

Far less nutty.

ugo.santalucia

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money

Iran's overseas assets (including this £400m) were frozen after the 1979 revolution, so 'giving it back' wasn't really an option back then. They still have hundreds of billions worldwide, which are still frozen...

I am all for sanctions, but I question the legality of freezing assets and withdrawing payments. It is legitimate to impose heavy tariffs, ban the import of goods from said nations, ban the exports to said nations and prevent them from using services… but I am in two minds when it comes to property. In the specific case, it is outrageous that a large sum of money has been frozen for 30 years, including after the Ajatollah regime came to an end (sort of…)

imposter2.0

ugo.santalucia said:

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money

Iran's overseas assets (including this £400m) were frozen after the 1979 revolution, so 'giving it back' wasn't really an option back then. They still have hundreds of billions worldwide, which are still frozen...

I am all for sanctions, but I question the legality of freezing assets and withdrawing payments. It is legitimate to impose heavy tariffs, ban the import of goods from said nations, ban the exports to said nations and prevent them from using services… but I am in two minds when it comes to property. In the specific case, it is outrageous that a large sum of money has been frozen for 30 years, including after the Ajatollah regime came to an end (sort of…)

Khomeini may be long dead, but it's not like the regime has changed much in the meantime.

TheBigBean

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money

Iran's overseas assets (including this £400m) were frozen after the 1979 revolution, so 'giving it back' wasn't really an option back then. They still have hundreds of billions worldwide, which are still frozen...

I am all for sanctions, but I question the legality of freezing assets and withdrawing payments. It is legitimate to impose heavy tariffs, ban the import of goods from said nations, ban the exports to said nations and prevent them from using services… but I am in two minds when it comes to property. In the specific case, it is outrageous that a large sum of money has been frozen for 30 years, including after the Ajatollah regime came to an end (sort of…)

Khomeini may be long dead, but it's not like the regime has changed much in the meantime.

Here's a random couple of women in 2020 in Tehran.



Here's what a chador looks like which was the clothing in the 1980s

rick_chasey

TBH the revolution is a travesty as it's got a lot going for it otherwise.

Don't know enough about the history but Iran is surely proof that the the journey of national development through time is not linear and it does not necessarily end up in a liberal western (or even a socialist eastern) model.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TBH the revolution is a travesty as it's got a lot going for it otherwise.

Don't know enough about the history but Iran is surely proof that the the journey of national development through time is not linear and it does not necessarily end up in a liberal western (or even a socialist eastern) model.

A people's uprising replaced an absolute monarchy (i.e. a dictatorship) backed by the US with a mix of theocracy and democracy not backed by the US.

Losing US backing was costly as the US then supported Sadam Hussein's war against Iran which involved chemical weapons.

The US then realised that Sadam Hussein wasn't such a good egg, but failed to make any attempt to reconcile with Iran who were then a bit peeved about being chemically attacked.

10 years after this Iran elected a reformist President (Mohammad Khatami). At the time, they were also looking after more refugees than anywhere else in the world and doing about 80% of the world's drug busts (something many countries are paid to do). Yet when the reformist president tried to get the sanctions eased, nothing happened.

In response the electorate chose Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. A hardline leader who promised to fight the economic embargo. Cue outraged west who decided sanctions were fully justified.

Then slow progress. Then Trump. Etc.

Iran would be a far different place, but for all the sanctions.

MattFalle

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

no

she was about to be released and de pffefell then said sge was a journo, which she wasn't, so they licked her back up again because they cpuldn't be bothered with being pissedaround

i love your blind de pffeffel love. actually i don't, but hey.

MattFalle

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

MattFalle

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money, so you have to give it back... I guess this is a very basic principle.
If I owe money to a murderer, it's not that I can write off the debt, because he's been convicted... the law doesn't allow that

this

MattFalle

daniel_b said:

DeVlaeminck said:

I should have used similar tactics when I had a dispute with Dave Hinde cycles.

Hindesight is a wonderful thing.

Hindesight goes in cycles I believe

imposter2.0

TheBigBean said:

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money

Iran's overseas assets (including this £400m) were frozen after the 1979 revolution, so 'giving it back' wasn't really an option back then. They still have hundreds of billions worldwide, which are still frozen...

I am all for sanctions, but I question the legality of freezing assets and withdrawing payments. It is legitimate to impose heavy tariffs, ban the import of goods from said nations, ban the exports to said nations and prevent them from using services… but I am in two minds when it comes to property. In the specific case, it is outrageous that a large sum of money has been frozen for 30 years, including after the Ajatollah regime came to an end (sort of…)

Khomeini may be long dead, but it's not like the regime has changed much in the meantime.

Here's a random couple of women in 2020 in Tehran.



Here's what a chador looks like which was the clothing in the 1980s

I wasn't really talking about their attire...

john80

MattFalle said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

no

she was about to be released and de pffefell then said sge was a journo, which she wasn't, so they licked her back up again because they cpuldn't be bothered with being pissedaround

i love your blind de pffeffel love. actually i don't, but hey.

Aye mate. They had her in the departure lounge just waiting to go till one random statement stopped it all. You are clueless if you think she was getting released anytime before they got their 400 million.

TheBigBean

imposter2.0 said:

TheBigBean said:

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

imposter2.0 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

The thing is, if they didn't want to deliver weapons to the Ajatollah (or whatever it is the spelling), they should have returned the money back then... it doesn't matter that the money would have been used to fund wars... it's not your money

Iran's overseas assets (including this £400m) were frozen after the 1979 revolution, so 'giving it back' wasn't really an option back then. They still have hundreds of billions worldwide, which are still frozen...

I am all for sanctions, but I question the legality of freezing assets and withdrawing payments. It is legitimate to impose heavy tariffs, ban the import of goods from said nations, ban the exports to said nations and prevent them from using services… but I am in two minds when it comes to property. In the specific case, it is outrageous that a large sum of money has been frozen for 30 years, including after the Ajatollah regime came to an end (sort of…)

Khomeini may be long dead, but it's not like the regime has changed much in the meantime.

Here's a random couple of women in 2020 in Tehran.



Here's what a chador looks like which was the clothing in the 1980s

I wasn't really talking about their attire...

Think of it as a reflection of society as a whole.

john80

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

TheBigBean

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

I've been, you?

john80

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

I've been, you?

I try not to vacation or work in areas with this sort of UK government guidance. You have fun though.

MattFalle

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

I've been, you?

and I've privy to a lot more info about the place than you glean from the Daily Heil.

imposter2.0

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

I've been, you?

I try not to vacation or work in areas with this sort of UK government guidance. You have fun though.

Translation - John says "No, I haven't been."

MattFalle

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

I've been, you?

I try not to vacation or work in areas with this sort of UK government guidance. You have fun though.

they probably don't serve your kind of food either.

MattFalle

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

no

she was about to be released and de pffefell then said sge was a journo, which she wasn't, so they licked her back up again because they cpuldn't be bothered with being pissedaround

i love your blind de pffeffel love. actually i don't, but hey.

Aye mate. They had her in the departure lounge just waiting to go till one random statement stopped it all. You are clueless if you think she was getting released anytime before they got their 400 million.

tbh, she was pretty much on her way there until your man, yet again, fuckedit up.

TheBigBean

john80 said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

TheBigBean said:

john80 said:

Pross said:

john80 said:

MattFalle said:

Sad thing is that the poor lady could have been home a good couple of years ago if de pffeffell wasn't such adickhead

but hey, people voted him in

#fucktheTories

I love your naivety. The UK has had to use Oman as an intermediary to get the money to Iran as sanctions are in place that prevent the money from being handed over earlier. They also had to negotiate with the USA to make sure that they were not them open to retaliation for this payment as it clearly broke sanctions rules. The reason she has been held in jail is because Iranians operate this way. They are a rogue state and any blame on the UK is akin to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Admittedly they probably also do this in Iran.

The UK had no choice but to pay the money, there was an international court ruling that confirmed the debt had to be repaid.

I am not disagreeing however you are conveniently side stepping the issue that sanctions prevent the payment hence the use of Oman. There is an argument that the money still should not be repaid as sanctions are still in place. The stupid thing about all of this is that if Iran was not such a nutjob of a country then what is a weeks worth of Oil exports worth to them. They are essentially arguing over a tenner when selling a house.

Iran is not a nutjob of a country.

thry are in Brexit John's eyes.

You and big bean get yourselves over there for a tour of the legal system and confirm it as anything other than batshit.

I've been, you?

I try not to vacation or work in areas with this sort of UK government guidance. You have fun though.

I did have fun. I'd probably list Isfahan in my top 20 places to visit.

john80

This is a new cakestop credibility low. People claiming that Iran is not a mental country yet government advice is not to travel there. In fact if you are dual passport holder you are not advised to travel even for essential travel. So who's wrong the UK governments foreign office or people on cakestop. I am sure it is the UK foreign office that has this wrong.

TheBigBean

john80 said:

This is a new cakestop credibility low. People claiming that Iran is not a mental country yet government advice is not to travel there. In fact if you are dual passport holder you are not advised to travel even for essential travel. So who's wrong the UK governments foreign office or people on cakestop. I am sure it is the UK foreign office that has this wrong.

If you open your own passport, you will find a warning to dual nationals. This should be widely known.

As to it the advise against travel list, it certainly hasn't always been on the list, but clearly there have been heighten tensions recently.

MattFalle

.

just carry on reading the Heil and justifying Brexit John.

MattFalle

john - business with Iran is being promoted. you may want to write to Rod Little to express outrage


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/doing-business-with-iran/frequently-asked-questions-on-doing-business-with-iran

TheBigBean

I really think this bit needs more emphasis. You can't appeal for British exceptionalism if you happen to be a national of the country you are in.

TheBigBean said:

If you open your own passport, you will find a warning to dual nationals. This should be widely known.

rick_chasey

Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

The Dutch won't be able to save you.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

The Dutch won't be able to save you.

In what instance?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

The Dutch won't be able to save you.

In what instance?

Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

A lot people used to fall foul of this when they were arrested for failing to turn up for national service when on holiday despite having lived in another country for their whole lives.

*Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.