Are the Iranians terrible at business?

13

Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    My only Iran story is that on two occasions, in two companies they managed to get a ton of work done for free by refusing to pay when the results of the study were'nt what they wanted to hear (i.e no oil there mate, soz).

    In each case the company basically found itself saying, look just tell us what you want to hear and we'll make a study up saying it's true but that never worked...

    So if getting stuff for free is good business, then...yep.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,596
    edited March 2022

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    that as maybe but she did say that the last 5 foreign ministers, have been utterlyshit, with de pffefel being theshittest.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    edited March 2022

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

    Didn't we at one point cancel the visas on arrival of three Iranians sent to negotiate the release in return for resolving the outstanding debt? That would suggest that we could have reached an agreement with Iran earlier if we wanted to. The speed at which Truss has reached a resolution would add to that argument.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    rjsterry said:

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

    Didn't we at one point cancel the visas on arrival of three Iranians sent to negotiate the release in return for resolving the outstanding debt? That would suggest that we could have reached an agreement with Iran earlier if we wanted to. The speed at which Truss has reached a resolution would add to that argument.
    Maybe the arrival of yet another British minister convinced the Iranians to get a deal done quickly before they had to go back to square one again with the next clown.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Maybe blaming the UK government for holding a British/Iranian national for the purposes of blackmail needs to be called out for what it is. She was only arrested as she is female and had a young child which piqued UK interest to the benefit of the Iranians. The fact that many on here think that this is the UK governments fault is funny. Have a look on this link to see exactly what they are up to.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_nationals_detained_in_Iran#List_of_British_permanent_residents

    I suppose the flip side is would you be happy if the UK built a prison and then arrested people in a tit for tat basis and allowed the SAS to practice their torture techniques on them. I think this is the only thing places like Iran understand when you have nabbed someone of prominences wife who is probably on a shopping trip to Harrods. A couple of threats of rape/beatings and maybe we could have had her out in a tenth of the time. Not necessarily the view of Britain we wish to portray to the world. I mean for good measure we could just do a Russia and deny we were doing it whilst it was all in plain sight.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    Why's she out now, John?
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    edited March 2022
    john80 said:

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
    So you're saying it's most likely just a coincidence that the UK found a way to repay the debt and she got released at about the same time?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,596
    rjsterry said:

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

    Didn't we at one point cancel the visas on arrival of three Iranians sent to negotiate the release in return for resolving the outstanding debt? That would suggest that we could have reached an agreement with Iran earlier if we wanted to. The speed at which Truss has reached a resolution would add to that argument.
    I suspect the Ukraine war has helped with the speed quite a lot.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638

    rjsterry said:

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

    Didn't we at one point cancel the visas on arrival of three Iranians sent to negotiate the release in return for resolving the outstanding debt? That would suggest that we could have reached an agreement with Iran earlier if we wanted to. The speed at which Truss has reached a resolution would add to that argument.
    I suspect the Ukraine war has helped with the speed quite a lot.
    From what I've read it was new people on both sides allowing for a reset, plus Truss's political will to get it done. And of course the UK finally paying the debt that an international court said was payable.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965

    john80 said:

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
    So you're saying it's most likely just a coincidence that the UK found a way to repay the debt and she got released at about the same time?
    If you are happy to defend a state that does what you describe then crack on. All I ask is that you own your logic. Can I kidnap your loved one then blackmail you into paying for her release. I mean Iran could just follow international norms and they would not have sanctions and the UK would happily sell them sophisticated arms. We were looking for the deal before their actions scuppered it.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    john80 said:

    john80 said:

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
    So you're saying it's most likely just a coincidence that the UK found a way to repay the debt and she got released at about the same time?
    If you are happy to defend a state that does what you describe then crack on. All I ask is that you own your logic. Can I kidnap your loved one then blackmail you into paying for her release. I mean Iran could just follow international norms and they would not have sanctions and the UK would happily sell them sophisticated arms. We were looking for the deal before their actions scuppered it.
    It's not a question of defending them; it's a question of whether our government has done enough to protect its citizens. Actions of both parties have scuppered earlier attempts at a deal. Both parties can be in the wrong.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,596
    rjsterry said:

    john80 said:

    john80 said:

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
    So you're saying it's most likely just a coincidence that the UK found a way to repay the debt and she got released at about the same time?
    If you are happy to defend a state that does what you describe then crack on. All I ask is that you own your logic. Can I kidnap your loved one then blackmail you into paying for her release. I mean Iran could just follow international norms and they would not have sanctions and the UK would happily sell them sophisticated arms. We were looking for the deal before their actions scuppered it.
    It's not a question of defending them; it's a question of whether our government has done enough to protect its citizens. Actions of both parties have scuppered earlier attempts at a deal. Both parties can be in the wrong.
    She largely ceased to be British though when she entered Iran which is the point I was making.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638

    rjsterry said:

    john80 said:

    john80 said:

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
    So you're saying it's most likely just a coincidence that the UK found a way to repay the debt and she got released at about the same time?
    If you are happy to defend a state that does what you describe then crack on. All I ask is that you own your logic. Can I kidnap your loved one then blackmail you into paying for her release. I mean Iran could just follow international norms and they would not have sanctions and the UK would happily sell them sophisticated arms. We were looking for the deal before their actions scuppered it.
    It's not a question of defending them; it's a question of whether our government has done enough to protect its citizens. Actions of both parties have scuppered earlier attempts at a deal. Both parties can be in the wrong.
    She largely ceased to be British though when she entered Iran which is the point I was making.
    I take your point, but clearly her British nationality was relevant or we wouldn't even be discussing the case.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

    Didn't we at one point cancel the visas on arrival of three Iranians sent to negotiate the release in return for resolving the outstanding debt? That would suggest that we could have reached an agreement with Iran earlier if we wanted to. The speed at which Truss has reached a resolution would add to that argument.
    I suspect the Ukraine war has helped with the speed quite a lot.
    From what I've read it was new people on both sides allowing for a reset, plus Truss's political will to get it done. And of course the UK finally paying the debt that an international court said was payable.
    Truss' political will? mega.


    #frickingbrilliant
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    john80 said:

    Maybe blaming the UK government for holding a British/Iranian national for the purposes of blackmail needs to be called out for what it is. She was only arrested as she is female and had a young child which piqued UK interest to the benefit of the Iranians. The fact that many on here think that this is the UK governments fault is funny. Have a look on this link to see exactly what they are up to.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_nationals_detained_in_Iran#List_of_British_permanent_residents

    I suppose the flip side is would you be happy if the UK built a prison and then arrested people in a censored for tat basis and allowed the SAS to practice their torture techniques on them. I think this is the only thing places like Iran understand when you have nabbed someone of prominences wife who is probably on a shopping trip to Harrods. A couple of threats of rape/beatings and maybe we could have had her out in a tenth of the time. Not necessarily the view of Britain we wish to portray to the world. I mean for good measure we could just do a Russia and deny we were doing it whilst it was all in plain sight.

    just to set the record straight,the SAS don't torture people.

    5 and 6 do that.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    edited March 2022
    john80 said:

    john80 said:

    Why's she out now, John?

    Because Iranians decided to let her out. Why is Morad Tahbaz still in detention? Why did Abbas Edalat get released in in 2018 when he had been in for less time than Ratcliffe? Go through the list and provide some insight as to the logical reasons for incarceration's in the first place and then the logic of how and when people get released. Maybe while you are at it you can think about how likely it is that further UK citizens with dual nationality get imprisoned following the link between paying 400 million and this case that everyone seems to be making. Its not like their jails cost 40k per year per prisoner to keep them in.
    So you're saying it's most likely just a coincidence that the UK found a way to repay the debt and she got released at about the same time?
    If you are happy to defend a state that does what you describe then crack on. All I ask is that you own your logic. Can I kidnap your loved one then blackmail you into paying for her release. I mean Iran could just follow international norms and they would not have sanctions and the UK would happily sell them sophisticated arms. We were looking for the deal before their actions scuppered it.
    Reading an awful lot into my question there. I think your answer means - no, you don't think it's a coincidence.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    MattFalle said:

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Sorry, what are you trying to say here?

    The Dutch won't be able to save you.
    In what instance?
    Every country is different* in the way it deals with it, but generally if you were only Dutch and you were arrested in the UK, then the Dutch embassy would be notified under international law and be able to provide consular support; however, because you are a dual citizen, you would be treated as exclusively British and not necessarily provided embassy contact.

    *Not sure how it works in the UK, but it certainly works like this in many countries including the US.
    Yeah it depends from country to country. Dutch only allow dual nationalities until you are 18 and then you need to chose.

    The exception is the UK and that is a direct result of Brexit as they found it easier to give the Brits in Netherlands just citizenship rather than fannying about with visas and indefinite leave to remain etc.

    So I re-commenced my dual nationality during that period. I had previously given up my Dutch nationality in order to be eligible for student loans and avoid paying international university fees here in the UK.

    The Dutch particularly pay a lot of attention to where you live compared to other countries so they would know off the bat I haven't been living there.

    Having said that, neither nation knows I have the other nationality as no-where do you have to declare it, at least, I've not seen any.
    Many people are dual nationals when they are not allowed to be. The only time you would likely be rumbled is when trying to renew your Dutch passport in the UK (they may ask for evidence of your residency in the UK) or if you gave the wrong passport information for a flight.

    The point is though that negotiating the release of an Iranian national from prison in Iran is a lot harder than a British citizen. That the Iranian person may also be British is irrelevant as it would be in most countries.

    Now, of course, it can be argued that the two people recently released were only being held because they were British, but that doesn't change the fact that they were Iranian in Iran, and therefore subject to some somewhat arbitrary laws that may not have applied if they weren't Iranian.

    Or, in short, people like Hunt that think it should have sorted out a lot sooner either don't understand or are playing politics.

    And people who are dual nationals, really need to understand the limitations.

    Didn't we at one point cancel the visas on arrival of three Iranians sent to negotiate the release in return for resolving the outstanding debt? That would suggest that we could have reached an agreement with Iran earlier if we wanted to. The speed at which Truss has reached a resolution would add to that argument.
    I suspect the Ukraine war has helped with the speed quite a lot.
    From what I've read it was new people on both sides allowing for a reset, plus Truss's political will to get it done. And of course the UK finally paying the debt that an international court said was payable.
    Truss' political will? mega.


    #frickingbrilliant
    Quite possibly because she wants it on her card rather than anyone else's, but who cares.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,638
    MattFalle said:

    john80 said:

    Maybe blaming the UK government for holding a British/Iranian national for the purposes of blackmail needs to be called out for what it is. She was only arrested as she is female and had a young child which piqued UK interest to the benefit of the Iranians. The fact that many on here think that this is the UK governments fault is funny. Have a look on this link to see exactly what they are up to.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_nationals_detained_in_Iran#List_of_British_permanent_residents

    I suppose the flip side is would you be happy if the UK built a prison and then arrested people in a censored for tat basis and allowed the SAS to practice their torture techniques on them. I think this is the only thing places like Iran understand when you have nabbed someone of prominences wife who is probably on a shopping trip to Harrods. A couple of threats of rape/beatings and maybe we could have had her out in a tenth of the time. Not necessarily the view of Britain we wish to portray to the world. I mean for good measure we could just do a Russia and deny we were doing it whilst it was all in plain sight.

    just to set the record straight,the SAS don't torture people.

    5 and 6 do that.
    That's the only thing you want to correct?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,596
    The whole thing has provided the Guardian with plenty of material to write about.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    Good news is she is mental enough to believe that if only the government had paid out the 400 million when her captors said the reasoning in week two or three it would just have been like a tour operator going bust in terms of inconvenience. The woman is deluded.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,314
    I'm sure you'd be the model of rational thought and pragmatism in her shoes John
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    john80 said:

    Good news is she is mental enough to believe that if only the government had paid out the 400 million when her captors said the reasoning in week two or three it would just have been like a tour operator going bust in terms of inconvenience. The woman is deluded.

    seriously?

    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    MattFalle said:

    john80 said:

    Good news is she is mental enough to believe that if only the government had paid out the 400 million when her captors said the reasoning in week two or three it would just have been like a tour operator going bust in terms of inconvenience. The woman is deluded.

    seriously?

    Go and read her guardian article. Either they are making her out to be clueless or she is.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,675
    Erse, can't be bovvered commenting. Too tedious.
    But this wunnerful forum software means if one dare to start typing...
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    john80 said:

    MattFalle said:

    john80 said:

    Good news is she is mental enough to believe that if only the government had paid out the 400 million when her captors said the reasoning in week two or three it would just have been like a tour operator going bust in terms of inconvenience. The woman is deluded.

    seriously?

    Go and read her guardian article. Either they are making her out to be clueless or she is.
    Seriously?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    edited March 2022
    Just bear with me, and imagine a world where Iran can be wrong for holding her, and our government can also have been incompetent.

    Gavin Williamson was defence sec for some of the time if that helps.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    100% on both counts. The FS', especially the turbo belter de pffeffel failed her massively.

    she, and everyone else, should mever ever have been put in that position.

    i just find John utterly bizarre - the poor lady did years in a shithole and came out fighting.

    He'd last 5 minutes.

    i'm actually surprised that he hasn't posted that "they should have sent the SAS in"
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.