Gazprom suspended

RichN95.
RichN95. Posts: 27,147
edited March 2022 in Pro race
Gazprom and all other Russian & Belarussian teams and events have been suspended by the UCI. They were due to do some the upcoming Italian events.

Russians & Belarussian riders on other teams can continue, but no flags/anthems etc. So no TT champs skinsuit for Vlasov.

Gazprom's sponsor money actually comes from the German affiliate (as does sponsorship money for the big German races).

Elsewhere it appears Igor Makarov, an actual oligarch with power, keeps his seat on the UCI management committee (he did guide Lappartient's career after all) and Ekimov (yes that one) keeps his seat on the Pro Cycling Council (Armstrong & Bruyneel remain banned). Gazprom's sponsor money actually comes from the German affiliate (as does sponsorship money for the big German races).

So the foot soldiers suffer while the generals stay in place. Frankly the UCi are part of the problem. An institution in hoc to Russian cash.
Twitter: @RichN95
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Comments

  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 530
    edited March 2022
    It reads like "we are doing a few things so that we seem to comply to the public".
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,147
    edited March 2022
    Personally I think as a society we have become preoccupied with 'sending out the right signal' and it has taken the place of actually affecting change.

    Let's have a look at the cycling journalists and commentators. Which will ask 'What about Makarov' (proper journalists) and which will ask 'What about Yemen/Israel/China/USA/UK etc' (look at my virtue merchants).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,461
    Corrupt sport has emboldened Russia and contributed to their current attitude towards the world, particularly over the past decade. Them been given a FIFA world cup and winter Olympics was scandalous.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 530
    Just reread some of the few articles there are re Makarov and the UCI. Certainly reinforces the view that they will only do what is strictly necessary.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    RichN95. said:

    Personally I think as a society we have become preoccupied with 'sending out the right signal' and it has taken the place of actually affecting change.

    Let's have a look at the cycling journalists and commentators. Which will ask 'What about Makarov' (proper journalists) and which will ask 'What about Yemen/Israel/China/USA/UK etc' (look at my virtue merchants).

    Lots of people are collateral for Putin's ambitions to rebuild his vision of the Russian Empire.

    Unfortunately for these guys, they are collateral for the effort to make Russia a pariah state.

    You can feel bad for them, though my sympathy is rather stretched given what's going on in Ukraine.

    You can call out hypocrisy over the reaction if you want - I think that's fair, but equally, I don't think it is unreasonable for the west, especially Europe, to react quite strongly to this - more so than elsewhere. Its their own continent and memories of the last time a large scale country invasion happened still are there....
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,147
    ^^ I'm not saying they shouldn't ban riders and teams - they should. They could even have gone further, I wouldn't have objected. But if they're doing that while keeping Russians at the heart of the running of the sport then it's just for show.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    Yeah. There is a lot of muckey old soviet and despot middle eastern money in international sports - you would hope this might cause a bit of an international effort to flush it out.
  • neonriver
    neonriver Posts: 228
    Sivakov has officially changed nationality to French. Says application has been in for a while but asked for it to be fast tracked
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 530
    Anyone else feel unhappy with Vlasov riding.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,712
    edited May 2022
    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • 50x11
    50x11 Posts: 408
    Tbh I know it's unfair on the riders of these teams, but in all honesty that's the effect the sanctions are meant to have. It's to pressure people into not supporting the Gov's war.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,712
    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Anyone can denounce anything to get anything.

    there's a difference between your country waging an illegal war, looting, executing people in the streets, raping women and murdering children and, as much as a moujee he is, what de pffeffel is doing

    as MF said, call it their civic duty and when people in Russia ask them why they can't race/play their games they can explain.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,712
    MattFalle said:

    Anyone can denounce anything to get anything.

    there's a difference between your country waging an illegal war, looting, executing people in the streets, raping women and murdering children and, as much as a moujee he is, what de pffeffel is doing

    as MF said, call it their civic duty and when people in Russia ask them why they can't race/play their games they can explain.

    They'll blame the west.
    Whatevs, it's just opinions.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,147
    50x11 said:

    Tbh I know it's unfair on the riders of these teams, but in all honesty that's the effect the sanctions are meant to have. It's to pressure people into not supporting the Gov's war.

    While igor Makarov, an actual oligarch who has been sanctioned by several countries, remains at the centre of UCI affairs, taking action against riders is pointless. And Lappartient will defend Makarov to the end as he owes him his career.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    That's a very western perspective on things though, as, for now at least, we still live in a country where we can call the leader a lying piece of toe rag and not suffer undue repercussions. Russians don't enjoy that luxury, and this and many previous regimes have shown a clear willingness to punish not only the person doing the denouncing but their family as well. It's not as easy for them to go against the regime as it is you and I ours.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,712
    They lose out in all aspects then.
    The answer is not in the sporting world, but Russia itself.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    pblakeney said:

    They lose out in all aspects then.
    The answer is not in the sporting world, but Russia itself.

    its a holistic view. Russians are Russia.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,712
    Not all Russians are equal though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    But some are more equal than others
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,441
    pblakeney said:

    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    This. Banning a sports person from doing their job because of their nationality is a step too far. Yes, ban teams whether under the Russian flag or not but if you ban individuals competing in a sport it is no different to suspending a banker, lawyer, doctor, cleaner because they happen to be Russian.
  • mully79
    mully79 Posts: 904
    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    This. Banning a sports person from doing their job because of their nationality is a step too far. Yes, ban teams whether under the Russian flag or not but if you ban individuals competing in a sport it is no different to suspending a banker, lawyer, doctor, cleaner because they happen to be Russian.
    A lawyer or doctor etc doesn’t stand on a podium celebrating victory next to the family of another athlete who’s relatives/friends may have been murdered in a senseless war.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,731
    Its a difficult one as I think Pross is right to the extent sports people are not unique in attracting publicity, prestige or money.

    You could certainly say that arts and music are very similar - if the success of a tennis player reflects well on a nation so does the success of a conductor, a pop group, a dancer, author or artist. You could extend that to high profile academics or business people and as Rich points out to administrators in large organisations in the world's of sport, charity etc.

    On the other hand there will always be a "what about" that is an argument to do nothing - and doing nothing isn't really an option I could support.


    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,712
    edited May 2022
    mully79 said:

    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    This. Banning a sports person from doing their job because of their nationality is a step too far. Yes, ban teams whether under the Russian flag or not but if you ban individuals competing in a sport it is no different to suspending a banker, lawyer, doctor, cleaner because they happen to be Russian.
    A lawyer or doctor etc doesn’t stand on a podium celebrating victory next to the family of another athlete who’s relatives/friends may have been murdered in a senseless war.
    If you take that to it's logical conclusion then all Russians have to return to Russia?
    The lawyers and doctors don't only represent and treat Russians.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,196
    edited May 2022
    It seems Putin wants the USSR back, it's a Putin tang. All Russians though? I expect many just want to get on with their lives and make the best of it. I doubt they what to listen to who has the biggest/quickest nuke.

    Every rational person knows the winning move is not to play. Allowing as many Russians as possible to denounce the tang can only be a good tang.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    mully79 said:

    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    This. Banning a sports person from doing their job because of their nationality is a step too far. Yes, ban teams whether under the Russian flag or not but if you ban individuals competing in a sport it is no different to suspending a banker, lawyer, doctor, cleaner because they happen to be Russian.
    A lawyer or doctor etc doesn’t stand on a podium celebrating victory next to the family of another athlete who’s relatives/friends may have been murdered in a senseless war.
    They might be doing rather more useful things, of course. Think of someone like Navratilova, whose defection was a clear slap in the face of the Soviet regime, and who was subsequently forbidden from seeing her family for several years. From the experience of my in-laws, many who spoke out against the opposition were denied access to university and forced to do menial jobs. The ability to travel and do seemingly normal things would be denied them. Higher profile objectors were imprisoned or worse, with their families more harshly treated because of the role modelling their high status afforded them.

    It's the easiest thing in the world for us to sit in judgement sat here in our relative freedom.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    This. Banning a sports person from doing their job because of their nationality is a step too far. Yes, ban teams whether under the Russian flag or not but if you ban individuals competing in a sport it is no different to suspending a banker, lawyer, doctor, cleaner because they happen to be Russian.
    no, no its not.

    its perfectly fit and valid and its correct its being done and should be done in every facet of life.

    like in every other country, Russian sports people are massively influential in socisl media, society, politics, are v v wealthy and are a face on the international scene for their country.

    This isn't Ivan who works in a factory in Gdansk we're talking about.

    To be a pro in Russia they will be state sponsored from an early state approved, state backed and have contacts throughout the Party.

    They have influence, money, glamour. Essentially an oligarch on a bike.

    When they are banned they will hopefully question why and start to realise whats going on instead of tip toeing the Party line - after all, we didn't see many protesting about Crimea, Syria, etc.

    Ban 'em, fuck'em. Until their country stops the mass destruction of an independant peaceful country whilst commiting thousands of war crimes let 'em stay banned.

    Russia and all it entils has no part in decent society at the moment. Fuck'em.

    Innocent people in mass graves or some bloke riding a bicyle - I'll leave you to decide whats more important.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,441
    mully79 said:

    Pross said:

    pblakeney said:

    MattFalle said:

    pblakeney said:

    My opinion (and this covers all sport) is that it is fine, with a few caveats.
    They participate under no flag (or adopt another) and publicly denounce the invasion.
    If they can't do that then they are out. IMO.

    unfortunately that work - you've already cases of "no flag" gymnasts wearing Z symbols, no flag karter doing Nazi salutes.......

    chuck 'em,nkeep 'em out. call it their civic duty.
    I'm very happy to punish the above examples.
    I am less happy with punishing an individual that probably doesn't live in Russia and hopefully denounces the invasion. Same as I don't want to be blamed for BJ.
    This. Banning a sports person from doing their job because of their nationality is a step too far. Yes, ban teams whether under the Russian flag or not but if you ban individuals competing in a sport it is no different to suspending a banker, lawyer, doctor, cleaner because they happen to be Russian.
    A lawyer or doctor etc doesn’t stand on a podium celebrating victory next to the family of another athlete who’s relatives/friends may have been murdered in a senseless war.
    This is nonsensical. There wouldn't be much sport if we banned people from competing because the country that chance has left them 'belonging' to has been involved in a war with another country. You can't ban people from their jobs purely because they were born in a country that has reprehensible Government, it's not like you get much say on where you were born. Sure you could try to become a citizen elsewhere but that can take years.