Roi des Rouleurs (90s onwards)

Pross

ugo.santalucia said:

Pross said:

Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.

If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best

I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

ugo.santalucia said:

I set the bar at 1990 because that's when cycling became more specialised... the climbers took EPO and the sprinters took steroids... different drugs for different jobs.

And Bugno and Jalabert were definitely all rounders

Yes…

andyp

Pross said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Pross said:

Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.

If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best

I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.

Not many GC riders win two monuments and the worlds (twice in Bugno's case).

ugo.santalucia

andyp said:

Pross said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Pross said:

Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.

If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best

I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.

Not many GC riders win two monuments and the worlds (twice in Bugno's case).

And not the kind of monuments that suit a GT rider… not uncommon for the latter to Win LBL or Lombardia, but Flanders and Sanremo suit a different rider… a rouleur, in fact

No_Ta_Doctor

Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

ugo.santalucia

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

He was in my shortlist... didn't make the podium, but possibly could be there in place of Alaphilippe, who apparently is a Puncheur?

So let's say:

1) Gilbert
2) Bugno and Jalabert
3) Museeuw

Pross

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

Would be the first name I'd associate with being a rouleur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?

RichN95.

Watching the wind in Provence at the moment, I think a rouleur is a rider you'd expect to be on the front during an echelon stage.

davidof

ugo.santalucia said:

I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

Isn't Milan Turin the oldest race on the calendar ?

ugo.santalucia

davidof said:

ugo.santalucia said:

I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

Isn't Milan Turin the oldest race on the calendar ?

You might be right... mixed bag though... some true champions won it, but also some sub standard ones... Woods, Rosa, Sacchi, Serrano...

Although I remember that at some point we thought that Rosa was the new big thing in Italy!

No_Ta_Doctor

Pross said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?

Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔

He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.

Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)

blazing_saddles

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?

Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔

He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.

Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)

Agreed

That was a prime rouleur stage today in Provence: flat and a constant battle with the wind.
Gilbert came home almost 10 minutes down.

In other words, he is a puncheur and definitely not a rouleur.
Not sure how anybody can think differently.

Ganna will certainly make that list though, in a few years.

malyessarah7

Problem with guys like Canc and Thomas, is we know they're fast on the flat because of their TT ability, but as protected riders they rarely stuck their nose in the wind until the very end of the race OK, excluding a couple of Canc roubaix wins, but roubaix is roubaix.


Is the consensus that Boonen loses out on top rouleur status because he only won flanders and roubaix once as a solo rider.

If we ignore him rinsing Hoste so hard it looked like a solo finish but clearly wasn't, and he got spanked by Canc in 2010 Flanders.

Again, he suffers the problem that because he's Boonen they're not gonna let him down the road in a GT, nor would he want to as he can compete for the sprint.

The Heller Approach

ugo.santalucia

I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

blazing_saddles

ugo.santalucia said:

I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

I think most of us agree on the meaning of pucheur, at least. Check out who's photo they use as an example and whose name appears first on the list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puncheur

Can't be both.

Here's a worthwhile contribution:

https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/johan-museeuw-definition-of-a-rouleur

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

I think that’s very much the nub of the matter

Pross

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Pross said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?

Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔

He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.

Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)

Sorry meant rouleur, was agreeing with you basically. Hard week!

blazing_saddles

RichN95. said:

ugo.santalucia said:

I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

I think that’s very much the nub of the matter

FWIW I don't think it is necessary for a great rouleur to be a great champion.
I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.

GCN have produced video definition of the various rider categories. So for anyone with 2 minutes to spare. ( the comments underneath show that we aren't the only ones struggling to pin the meaning down)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEo2efB3uE

RichN95.

blazing_saddles said:

FWIW I don't think it is necessary for a great rouleur to be a great champion.
I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.

I mentioned Adam Hansen earlier. Strong, reliable, good at putting in the hard miles.

No_Ta_Doctor

I think we can separate rider types from success
You can be a Rouleur with very few wins (Oss perhaps?) and a decent domestique career, just as you can be a grimpeur that only ever gets to sit on the front for a gc rider (good money from Ineos and Jumbo).

The greatest Rouleurs should have a bucket full of wins though.

Asgreen is the archetypal Rouleur imo (not claiming he's the greatest, just fits what I think the mould is)

blazing_saddles

Asgreen definitely fits the bill. He’s not the only one in the QS ranks, both past and present.

DeadCalm

I always thought rouleur referred to someone who did best in rolling terrain; someone who would have looked at today's stage in Provence and thought that it would be a decent chance of a win.

No_Ta_Doctor

blazing_saddles said:

Asgreen definitely fits the bill. He’s not the only one in the QS ranks, both past and present.

As fits a team built around the classics

rick_chasey

Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

No_Ta_Doctor

rick_chasey said:

Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

Que?
Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...

rick_chasey

No_Ta_Doctor said:

rick_chasey said:

Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

Que?
Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...

Haha I am talking about actual body size - it might be his position but he looks a fair bit smaller than say Ganna

No_Ta_Doctor

rick_chasey said:

No_Ta_Doctor said:

rick_chasey said:

Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

Que?
Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...

Haha I am talking about actual body size - it might be his position but he looks a fair bit smaller than say Ganna

According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know) Ganna 1.93cm and 82kg, Asgreen 1.92cm and 75kg

In cycling terms that puts them both in Goliath territory! For reference, The Gorilla was 1.83 and 78kg

rick_chasey

I guess it’s that rakishness

yorkshireraw

RichN95. said:

yorkshireraw said:

Slightly related but on a tangent (and I have posed this one before so see who remembers....)

Quiz Question (no cheating / PCS) - who is the current (active) most successful rider in 1 day races (1.1. and above)?

Currently it's probably Alaphilippe. He is a double WC after all. He's usual in the mix for all the races bar Roubaix.

He's 'only' won nine 1-day races (according to PCS). 2 WCs, 6 WT plus Brabantse where he beat MVDP, so quality over quantity.
These guys win a lot less then we think sometimes - esp. 1 days.

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