Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.
If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best
I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.
I set the bar at 1990 because that's when cycling became more specialised... the climbers took EPO and the sprinters took steroids... different drugs for different jobs.
And Bugno and Jalabert were definitely all rounders
Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.
If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best
I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.
Not many GC riders win two monuments and the worlds (twice in Bugno's case).
Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.
If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best
I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.
Not many GC riders win two monuments and the worlds (twice in Bugno's case).
And not the kind of monuments that suit a GT rider… not uncommon for the latter to Win LBL or Lombardia, but Flanders and Sanremo suit a different rider… a rouleur, in fact
Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?
His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”
I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino… I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…
Isn't Milan Turin the oldest race on the calendar ?
I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino… I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…
Isn't Milan Turin the oldest race on the calendar ?
You might be right... mixed bag though... some true champions won it, but also some sub standard ones... Woods, Rosa, Sacchi, Serrano...
Although I remember that at some point we thought that Rosa was the new big thing in Italy!
Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?
His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano
Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?
Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔
He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.
Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”
Problem with guys like Canc and Thomas, is we know they're fast on the flat because of their TT ability, but as protected riders they rarely stuck their nose in the wind until the very end of the race OK, excluding a couple of Canc roubaix wins, but roubaix is roubaix.
Is the consensus that Boonen loses out on top rouleur status because he only won flanders and roubaix once as a solo rider.
If we ignore him rinsing Hoste so hard it looked like a solo finish but clearly wasn't, and he got spanked by Canc in 2010 Flanders.
Again, he suffers the problem that because he's Boonen they're not gonna let him down the road in a GT, nor would he want to as he can compete for the sprint.
I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...
I think that’s very much the nub of the matter
FWIW I don't think it is necessary for a great rouleur to be a great champion. I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.
GCN have produced video definition of the various rider categories. So for anyone with 2 minutes to spare. ( the comments underneath show that we aren't the only ones struggling to pin the meaning down)
FWIW I don't think it is necessary for a great rouleur to be a great champion. I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.
I mentioned Adam Hansen earlier. Strong, reliable, good at putting in the hard miles.
I think we can separate rider types from success You can be a Rouleur with very few wins (Oss perhaps?) and a decent domestique career, just as you can be a grimpeur that only ever gets to sit on the front for a gc rider (good money from Ineos and Jumbo).
The greatest Rouleurs should have a bucket full of wins though.
Asgreen is the archetypal Rouleur imo (not claiming he's the greatest, just fits what I think the mould is)
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”
I always thought rouleur referred to someone who did best in rolling terrain; someone who would have looked at today's stage in Provence and thought that it would be a decent chance of a win.
Team My Man 2022:
Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
Asgreen definitely fits the bill. He’s not the only one in the QS ranks, both past and present.
As fits a team built around the classics
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”
Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur
Que? Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”
Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur
Que? Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...
Haha I am talking about actual body size - it might be his position but he looks a fair bit smaller than say Ganna
According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know) Ganna 1.93cm and 82kg, Asgreen 1.92cm and 75kg
In cycling terms that puts them both in Goliath territory! For reference, The Gorilla was 1.83 and 78kg
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”
Slightly related but on a tangent (and I have posed this one before so see who remembers....)
Quiz Question (no cheating / PCS) - who is the current (active) most successful rider in 1 day races (1.1. and above)?
Currently it's probably Alaphilippe. He is a double WC after all. He's usual in the mix for all the races bar Roubaix.
He's 'only' won nine 1-day races (according to PCS). 2 WCs, 6 WT plus Brabantse where he beat MVDP, so quality over quantity. These guys win a lot less then we think sometimes - esp. 1 days.
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His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano
@DrHeadgear
The Vikings are coming!
So let's say:
1) Gilbert
2) Bugno and Jalabert
3) Museeuw
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Although I remember that at some point we thought that Rosa was the new big thing in Italy!
He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.
Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)
@DrHeadgear
The Vikings are coming!
That was a prime rouleur stage today in Provence: flat and a constant battle with the wind.
Gilbert came home almost 10 minutes down.
In other words, he is a puncheur and definitely not a rouleur.
Not sure how anybody can think differently.
Ganna will certainly make that list though, in a few years.
Is the consensus that Boonen loses out on top rouleur status because he only won flanders and roubaix once as a solo rider.
If we ignore him rinsing Hoste so hard it looked like a solo finish but clearly wasn't, and he got spanked by Canc in 2010 Flanders.
Again, he suffers the problem that because he's Boonen they're not gonna let him down the road in a GT, nor would he want to as he can compete for the sprint.
The Heller Approach
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puncheur
Can't be both.
Here's a worthwhile contribution:
https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/johan-museeuw-definition-of-a-rouleur
I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.
GCN have produced video definition of the various rider categories. So for anyone with 2 minutes to spare. ( the comments underneath show that we aren't the only ones struggling to pin the meaning down)
You can be a Rouleur with very few wins (Oss perhaps?) and a decent domestique career, just as you can be a grimpeur that only ever gets to sit on the front for a gc rider (good money from Ineos and Jumbo).
The greatest Rouleurs should have a bucket full of wins though.
Asgreen is the archetypal Rouleur imo (not claiming he's the greatest, just fits what I think the mould is)
@DrHeadgear
The Vikings are coming!
Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
@DrHeadgear
The Vikings are coming!
Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...
@DrHeadgear
The Vikings are coming!
In cycling terms that puts them both in Goliath territory! For reference, The Gorilla was 1.83 and 78kg
@DrHeadgear
The Vikings are coming!
These guys win a lot less then we think sometimes - esp. 1 days.