Roi des Rouleurs (90s onwards)

13

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,217

    Pross said:

    Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.

    If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best

    I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.
  • RichN95. said:



    I set the bar at 1990 because that's when cycling became more specialised... the climbers took EPO and the sprinters took steroids... different drugs for different jobs.


    And Bugno and Jalabert were definitely all rounders
    Yes…

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  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,069
    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.

    If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best

    I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.
    Not many GC riders win two monuments and the worlds (twice in Bugno's case).
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,172
    edited February 2022
    andyp said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Of the list in the OP I would suggest Gilbert and Jalabert (especially in his early days guise) were.

    If by Rouleur, we mean someone with a big engine and good on flat/rolling, then surely of my original lot, Bugno is the one that fits the description the best

    I think of Bugno as GC rider as he had a Giro win and two Tour podiums when I first started watching cycling properly.
    Not many GC riders win two monuments and the worlds (twice in Bugno's case).
    And not the kind of monuments that suit a GT rider… not uncommon for the latter to Win LBL or Lombardia, but Flanders and Sanremo suit a different rider… a rouleur, in fact

    left the forum March 2023
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,200
    Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

    His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,172
    edited February 2022

    Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

    His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

    He was in my shortlist... didn't make the podium, but possibly could be there in place of Alaphilippe, who apparently is a Puncheur?

    So let's say:

    1) Gilbert
    2) Bugno and Jalabert
    3) Museeuw
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,217
    edited February 2022

    Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

    His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

    Would be the first name I'd associate with being a rouleur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    Watching the wind in Provence at the moment, I think a rouleur is a rider you'd expect to be on the front during an echelon stage.
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  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,032

    I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
    I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

    Isn't Milan Turin the oldest race on the calendar ?

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  • davidof said:

    I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
    I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

    Isn't Milan Turin the oldest race on the calendar ?

    You might be right... mixed bag though... some true champions won it, but also some sub standard ones... Woods, Rosa, Sacchi, Serrano...

    Although I remember that at some point we thought that Rosa was the new big thing in Italy!
    left the forum March 2023
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,200
    Pross said:

    Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

    His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

    Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?
    Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔

    He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.

    Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)
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  • Pross said:

    Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

    His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

    Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?
    Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔

    He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.

    Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)
    Agreed

    That was a prime rouleur stage today in Provence: flat and a constant battle with the wind.
    Gilbert came home almost 10 minutes down.

    In other words, he is a puncheur and definitely not a rouleur.
    Not sure how anybody can think differently.

    Ganna will certainly make that list though, in a few years.
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  • Problem with guys like Canc and Thomas, is we know they're fast on the flat because of their TT ability, but as protected riders they rarely stuck their nose in the wind until the very end of the race OK, excluding a couple of Canc roubaix wins, but roubaix is roubaix.


    Is the consensus that Boonen loses out on top rouleur status because he only won flanders and roubaix once as a solo rider.

    If we ignore him rinsing Hoste so hard it looked like a solo finish but clearly wasn't, and he got spanked by Canc in 2010 Flanders.

    Again, he suffers the problem that because he's Boonen they're not gonna let him down the road in a GT, nor would he want to as he can compete for the sprint.

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  • I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...
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  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,741
    edited February 2022

    I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

    I think most of us agree on the meaning of pucheur, at least. Check out who's photo they use as an example and whose name appears first on the list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puncheur

    Can't be both.

    Here's a worthwhile contribution:

    https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/johan-museeuw-definition-of-a-rouleur
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137

    I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

    I think that’s very much the nub of the matter
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,217

    Pross said:

    Nobody giving Museeuw a shout then, even after I linked the interview?

    His classics palmares speak for themselves, and he won the world's on a climbers course in Lugano

    Would be the first name I'd associate with being a puncheur to be honest although based on the Wiki description possibly not versatile enough?
    Museeuw a puncheur? I think we have radically different definitions 🤔

    He was a sprinter that was "converted" to classics rider, and probably the prototype for Boonen.

    Alaphillipe is a puncheur - and I'd argue Gilbert too (despite the Roubaix win)
    Sorry meant rouleur, was agreeing with you basically. Hard week!
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,741
    edited February 2022
    RichN95. said:

    I think we keep disagreeing on the meaning of Rouleur... and until we agree on this, it's all pointless...

    I think that’s very much the nub of the matter
    FWIW I don't think it is necessary for a great rouleur to be a great champion.
    I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.

    GCN have produced video definition of the various rider categories. So for anyone with 2 minutes to spare. ( the comments underneath show that we aren't the only ones struggling to pin the meaning down)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEo2efB3uE
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137



    FWIW I don't think it is necessary for a great rouleur to be a great champion.
    I noticed that Museeuw gave Thomas de Gendt - who has been mentioned earlier in the thread. as a prime example. He was one of the first names that sprang into my mind.

    I mentioned Adam Hansen earlier. Strong, reliable, good at putting in the hard miles.

    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,200
    I think we can separate rider types from success
    You can be a Rouleur with very few wins (Oss perhaps?) and a decent domestique career, just as you can be a grimpeur that only ever gets to sit on the front for a gc rider (good money from Ineos and Jumbo).

    The greatest Rouleurs should have a bucket full of wins though.

    Asgreen is the archetypal Rouleur imo (not claiming he's the greatest, just fits what I think the mould is)
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  • Asgreen definitely fits the bill. He’s not the only one in the QS ranks, both past and present.
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  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,099
    I always thought rouleur referred to someone who did best in rolling terrain; someone who would have looked at today's stage in Provence and thought that it would be a decent chance of a win.
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,200

    Asgreen definitely fits the bill. He’s not the only one in the QS ranks, both past and present.

    As fits a team built around the classics
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,244
    Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,200

    Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

    Que?
    Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,244

    Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

    Que?
    Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...
    Haha I am talking about actual body size - it might be his position but he looks a fair bit smaller than say Ganna
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,200

    Total prejudice but Asgreen isn’t a big enough lad for my mental image of a Rouleur

    Que?
    Do Rouleurs have to have an "off the bike" palmares now? I'm assuming you can't be talking about his physical size...
    Haha I am talking about actual body size - it might be his position but he looks a fair bit smaller than say Ganna
    According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know) Ganna 1.93cm and 82kg, Asgreen 1.92cm and 75kg

    In cycling terms that puts them both in Goliath territory! For reference, The Gorilla was 1.83 and 78kg
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,244
    I guess it’s that rakishness
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,628
    edited March 2022
    RichN95. said:

    Slightly related but on a tangent (and I have posed this one before so see who remembers....)

    Quiz Question (no cheating / PCS) - who is the current (active) most successful rider in 1 day races (1.1. and above)?

    Currently it's probably Alaphilippe. He is a double WC after all. He's usual in the mix for all the races bar Roubaix.
    He's 'only' won nine 1-day races (according to PCS). 2 WCs, 6 WT plus Brabantse where he beat MVDP, so quality over quantity.
    These guys win a lot less then we think sometimes - esp. 1 days.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,878

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