Roi des Rouleurs (90s onwards)

ugo.santalucia

My podium

1) Gilbert
2) Bugno and Jalabert
3) Alaphilippe

What’s yours?

andyp

None of them are rouleurs, starter for ten.

Also, how can you have four riders on the three person podium?

ugo.santalucia

andyp said:

None of them are rouleurs, starter for ten.

Also, how can you have four riders on the three person podium?

Enlighten me…
Wikipedia defines a rouleur as someone competitive over many terrains…
Gilbert has won Roubaix as well as LBL… not many did in modern times.
Bugno was an exceptional time triallist, but yet won at Alpe d’Huez… as well as two worlds and Flanders… Jaja was a sprinter, but also won the maillot a pois in 1998, among other things and Alaphilippe has shown he can be there and win pretty much any race, including Grand Tour stages…

ugo.santalucia

All rounder any better?

kingstongraham

I'd say a rouleur is someone like Kwiatkowski - not going to win a sprint against the sprinters, not going to win a proper climb against the climbers, a domestique but not just a domestique.

RichN95.

I've said it many times before:

Geraint Thomas. He's won the Tour and both mountain and time trial stages. He's won a cobbled classic, and been top ten in all of them. He's done lead-outs. He's won track gold medals. He's been a domestique on all terrains. He's even got two podcasts and three books.

MattFalle

RichN95. said:

I've said it many times before:

Geraint Thomas. He's won the Tour and both mountain and time trial stages. He's won a cobbled classic, and been top ten in all of them. He's done lead-outs. He's won track gold medals. He's been a domestique on all terrains. He's even got two podcasts and three books.

wayne rooney has three books as well.

katie prices has six.



proves nothing but people will buy any oldshit.

kingstongraham

Thomas is not a better all round road cyclist than (for example) Nibali.

DeVlaeminck

I see a rouleur as a rider that has a big engine - a lot of power rather than just power to weight - winning in the mountains almost means you can't be a rouleur. They might have a sprint on them but they can and will attack alone or with a small group rather than trying to win it at the finish.

For me Museeuw, Boonen riders like that.

RichN95.

kingstongraham said:

Thomas is not a better all round road cyclist than (for example) Nibali.

He is. NIbali climbs and that's about it.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

kingstongraham said:

Thomas is not a better all round road cyclist than (for example) Nibali.

He is. NIbali climbs and that's about it.

How about the 2014 cobbled stage?
He did win Milan Sanremo, which is not exactly one for the climbers… I would say Nibali is an all rounder

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck said:

I see a rouleur as a rider that has a big engine - a lot of power rather than just power to weight - winning in the mountains almost means you can't be a rouleur. They might have a sprint on them but they can and will attack alone or with a small group rather than trying to win it at the finish.

For me Museeuw, Boonen riders like that.

Museeuw yes, Boonen couldn’t really climb anything longer than a Flemish berg, not sure he was an all rounder…

ugo.santalucia

kingstongraham said:

I'd say a rouleur is someone like Kwiatkowski - not going to win a sprint against the sprinters, not going to win a proper climb against the climbers, a domestique but not just a domestique.

What is the difference between him and say Gilbert… other than the latter won more races?

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

I've said it many times before:

Geraint Thomas. He's won the Tour and both mountain and time trial stages. He's won a cobbled classic, and been top ten in all of them. He's done lead-outs. He's won track gold medals. He's been a domestique on all terrains. He's even got two podcasts and three books.

Cobbled classic? Was it the E3 Harelbeke? I think I was there at the finish when he dropped Sagan and finished solo… not a massive turnout of public… I think it was a Friday… as we did Gent Wevelgen sportive the following day. It didn’t feel like we were part of a massive event… more like a local race… I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

ugo.santalucia

With all the above in mind… Rebellin has a special place in my books… his 2004 treble was memorable… AND he is the only PRO rider older than me still active… legend!

wakemalcolm

ugo.santalucia said:

RichN95. said:

I've said it many times before:

Geraint Thomas. He's won the Tour and both mountain and time trial stages. He's won a cobbled classic, and been top ten in all of them. He's done lead-outs. He's won track gold medals. He's been a domestique on all terrains. He's even got two podcasts and three books.

Cobbled classic? Was it the E3 Harelbeke? I think I was there at the finish when he dropped Sagan and finished solo… not a massive turnout of public… I think it was a Friday… as we did Gent Wevelgen sportive the following day. It didn’t feel like we were part of a massive event… more like a local race… I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

E3 not a classic? It's a world tour race of 60 years in standing on cobbles in the spring in Belgium. How much more classic would you like?

wakemalcolm

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/12911497/chippers-a-reminder
Just checked IainF72s definitive guide. Mid ranking classic not a chipper.

ugo.santalucia

wakemalcolm said:

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/12911497/chippers-a-reminder
Just checked IainF72s definitive guide. Mid ranking classic not a chipper.

I said I didn’t want to call it a chipper… but…

It’s not a palmares defining race, it’s not a career changing race. I was there… maybe 50 people around the finish line… it wasn’t a three deep crowd for sure… then the podium ceremony, maybe 100 spectators, give or take… I’ve seen more people at some kids football games to be honest.
It’s a nice enough course, and generally attracts some of the specialists, but it’s not the Ronde by any stretch of imagination.

Point is, I wouldn’t rate Thomas among the greats because he has won the E3

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

I said I didn’t want to call it a chipper… but…

It’s not a palmares defining race, it’s not a career changing race. I was there… maybe 50 people around the finish line… it wasn’t a three deep crowd for sure… then the podium ceremony, maybe 100 spectators, give or take… I’ve seen more people at some kids football games to be honest.
It’s a nice enough course, and generally attracts some of the specialists, but it’s not the Ronde by any stretch of imagination.

Point is, I wouldn’t rate Thomas among the greats because he has won the E3

I thought you were going on about all rounders. It's not just E3 - he has an excellent cobbled race pedigree having been top ten in almost all of them

ugo.santalucia

RichN95. said:

ugo.santalucia said:

I said I didn’t want to call it a chipper… but…

It’s not a palmares defining race, it’s not a career changing race. I was there… maybe 50 people around the finish line… it wasn’t a three deep crowd for sure… then the podium ceremony, maybe 100 spectators, give or take… I’ve seen more people at some kids football games to be honest.
It’s a nice enough course, and generally attracts some of the specialists, but it’s not the Ronde by any stretch of imagination.

Point is, I wouldn’t rate Thomas among the greats because he has won the E3

I thought you were going on about all rounders. It's not just E3 - he has an excellent cobbled race pedigree having been top ten in almost all of them

Ok, but if we look at the greats, then we have to discount placings… top 10 is not good enough to be on the podium of the best over a 30 year period. Putting Thomas on par with Gilbert is a bit of a stretch… it’s just nationalism, isn’t it? Next thing Robert Millar will feature among the Tour de France greats…

blazing_saddles

I was going to suggest Fabian Cancellara, but since Geraint Thomas is being debated, I found this from 2014:

https://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/year-review-five-best-rouleurs.html

blazing_saddles

ugo.santalucia said:

RichN95. said:

ugo.santalucia said:

I said I didn’t want to call it a chipper… but…

It’s not a palmares defining race, it’s not a career changing race. I was there… maybe 50 people around the finish line… it wasn’t a three deep crowd for sure… then the podium ceremony, maybe 100 spectators, give or take… I’ve seen more people at some kids football games to be honest.
It’s a nice enough course, and generally attracts some of the specialists, but it’s not the Ronde by any stretch of imagination.

Point is, I wouldn’t rate Thomas among the greats because he has won the E3

I thought you were going on about all rounders. It's not just E3 - he has an excellent cobbled race pedigree having been top ten in almost all of them

Ok, but if we look at the greats, then we have to discount placings… top 10 is not good enough to be on the podium of the best over a 30 year period. Putting Thomas on par with Gilbert is a bit of a stretch… it’s just nationalism, isn’t it? Next thing Robert Millar will feature among the Tour de France greats…

Except Gilbert isn’t a rouleur, he’s a puncheur.

kingstongraham

Indurain?

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

Ok, but if we look at the greats, then we have to discount placings… top 10 is not good enough to be on the podium of the best over a 30 year period. Putting Thomas on par with Gilbert is a bit of a stretch… it’s just nationalism, isn’t it? Next thing Robert Millar will feature among the Tour de France greats…

If you're now changing the topic to the all time greats of the sport, which you weren't, then he's not in the conversation. Neither are Bugno or Jalabert. Alaphilippe's not there yet either.

kingstongraham

blazing_saddles said:

I was going to suggest Fabian Cancellara, but since Geraint Thomas is being debated, I found this from 2014:

https://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/year-review-five-best-rouleurs.html

Back when he was a rouleur...

Tony Martin's a good shout, but a bit too much of a steam train.

andyp

A rouleur is a rider who is strong on flatter terrains, not an all rounder. You could argue the toss over who the best three are of the last forty years, but riders like Cancellara, Tafi and Van Aert would feature. You don't expect a rouleur to drop climbers, but they can be hard to pull back if they get a gap in the mountains, i.e. remember Thor Hushovd's Tour stage win in the Pyrenees.

Gilbert and Alaphillipe are puncheurs. whilst Bugno and Jalabert are true all-rounders.

RichN95.

andyp said:

A rouleur is a rider who is strong on flatter terrains, not an all rounder. You could argue the toss over who the best three are of the last forty years, but riders like Cancellara, Tafi and Van Aert would feature. You don't expect a rouleur to drop climbers, but they can be hard to pull back if they get a gap in the mountains, i.e. remember Thor Hushovd's Tour stage win in the Pyrenees.

I agree. They are basically strong time triallists (when they need to be) who aren't GC riders.

So Cancellara, Martin, Hushovd, Kiryienka, Grabsch, Hansen etc

ugo.santalucia

kingstongraham said:

Indurain?

Bit too much of a grand tour guy... did he win any monument? I think not...

rick_chasey

ugo.santalucia said:

My podium

1) Gilbert
2) Bugno and Jalabert
3) Alaphilippe

What’s yours?

Sorry for the slow reply, this post was so shocking it gave me a hernia and I need to recover.

Alaphilippe & Gilbert are surely the *definition* of world class puncheur, not rouleurs...

Can't offer a view on Bugno as he retierd the year I started watching it.

Only caught the back end of Jalabert, but surely he was too much of an all-rounder to be a rouleur?

rick_chasey

ugo.santalucia said:

RichN95. said:

I've said it many times before:

Geraint Thomas. He's won the Tour and both mountain and time trial stages. He's won a cobbled classic, and been top ten in all of them. He's done lead-outs. He's won track gold medals. He's been a domestique on all terrains. He's even got two podcasts and three books.

Cobbled classic? Was it the E3 Harelbeke? I think I was there at the finish when he dropped Sagan and finished solo… not a massive turnout of public… I think it was a Friday… as we did Gent Wevelgen sportive the following day. It didn’t feel like we were part of a massive event… more like a local race… I’ll put it on par with the Giro dell’Emilia… or Milano-Torino…
I don’t want to use the word “Chipper” but I don’t want to use the word classic either…

Point of order, E3 is not a chipper.

At all.

*easily* the most underrated race on the calendar and has since the 00s probably been more entertaining overall than any of the other cobbled races....

rick_chasey

Problem with guys like Canc and Thomas, is we know they're fast on the flat because of their TT ability, but as protected riders they rarely stuck their nose in the wind until the very end of the race (OK, excluding a couple of Canc roubaix wins, but roubaix is roubaix).


Is the consensus that Boonen loses out on top rouleur status because he only won flanders and roubaix once as a solo rider? (if we ignore him rinsing Hoste so hard it looked like a solo finish but clearly wasn't), and he got spanked by Canc in 2010 Flanders?

Again, he suffers the problem that because he's Boonen they're not gonna let him down the road in a GT, nor would he want to as he can compete for the sprint.