My more major project to lighten an R8000 disc brake road bike

ibr17xvii

MattFalle said:

Contis are 65g per tyre heavier, so 130g overall which is quite a chunk tbh....

(those weights are based on just a quick Google btw)

Or go 26mm Specialised and save an extra 20g making a nice round 150g which is not to be sniffed at....

I think it depends if the OP is going full on weight weenie or sacrifice some weight for comfort.

If you're not going all out WW then there's balance to be struck & tyres / pressure is a big one if you're looking for a bit more comfort over weight.

daniel_b

MattFalle said:

Contis are 65g per tyre heavier, so 130g overall which is quite a chunk tbh....

(those weights are based on just a quick Google btw)

Or go 26mm Specialised and save an extra 20g making a nice round 150g which is not to be sniffed at....

I'll certainly have a look at the Specialised tyres - not come across them before.

Looking at the GP5000 tyre weights, the 28s are 30g heavier than the 25s, so that's 60g heavier overall - the wider 22mm rim is 58g lighter than the 18mm internal width rim, so it's 6 of one as far as I can tell.

MattFalle

ibr17xvii said:

MattFalle said:

Contis are 65g per tyre heavier, so 130g overall which is quite a chunk tbh....

(those weights are based on just a quick Google btw)

Or go 26mm Specialised and save an extra 20g making a nice round 150g which is not to be sniffed at....

I think it depends if the OP is going full on weight weenie or sacrifice some weight for comfort.

If you're not going all out WW then there's balance to be struck & tyres / pressure is a big one if you're looking for a bit more comfort over weight.

tbh, netween 26 and 28 you're going to notice no difference at all.

OP is already starting with a heavy groupset disadvantage, so for him to hit that magic mark he needs to start taking the easy pickings such as tyres....

daniel_b

The groupset will be replaced in the future though - using another C2W voucher, but in the meantime I am trying to get some easy and useful wins that will have longevity.
Wheels, bars etc will run and run.

I've just messaged Spokesman again, they have come back with a very reasonable (I think) £1049 delivered for a set of wheels with a weight of between 1270 & 1295 grams.
I've just messaged him back to enquire again about the Extralite hubs, as with those it would fall under the 1200g mark, over half a kilo lighter than the stock wheels, and even lighter than my rim brake Mavix Ksyrium 125th anniversary Exaliths on the CR1 that weigh 1320g.
Not sure if the rest of the build would be identical - he's talking about 24 spokes front and rear.

MattFalle

What groupset are you thinking of?

daniel_b

Long term either Dura Ace like my Foil, but Di2, or maybe Red Etap - haven't spent any time looking at respective weights etc. Would probably be in a couple of years time.

ibr17xvii

MattFalle said:

ibr17xvii said:

MattFalle said:

Contis are 65g per tyre heavier, so 130g overall which is quite a chunk tbh....

(those weights are based on just a quick Google btw)

Or go 26mm Specialised and save an extra 20g making a nice round 150g which is not to be sniffed at....

I think it depends if the OP is going full on weight weenie or sacrifice some weight for comfort.

If you're not going all out WW then there's balance to be struck & tyres / pressure is a big one if you're looking for a bit more comfort over weight.

tbh, netween 26 and 28 you're going to notice no difference at all.

OP is already starting with a heavy groupset disadvantage, so for him to hit that magic mark he needs to start taking the easy pickings such as tyres....

True. Tyres / wheels are the easy wins.

Long term, isn't R8000 mechanical slightly lighter than Di2? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

Must admit I didn't weigh mine before I got Di2, I should've done really although I was keen to try out electronic so it wouldn't have made any difference if it was heavier I still would've got it.

daniel_b

Entirely possible, but was assuming (Dangerous I know) Di2 Dura Ace would be lighter than mechanical Ultegra - and in the current iteration I don't even think mechanical is an option anymore.

So far I have ordered:
2 XTR Rotors from Tredz - £100 the pair inc TCB
2 28mm GP5000s from PBK - £68 for two inc TCB
1 pair of Look pedals from PBK - £205 with discount code and TCB.

Sadly the 4iiiiii crank has popped back up to full price at PBK, so will have to sit tight and wait for another deal or for it to be reduced again - would have been £250 which is excellent I think, currently would be £320, quite a difference, though other places have it for circa £280.
Not an issue though, no hurry.

Just been investigating other avenues - BC discount at Halfords doesn't work as it's not allowed on 'cycling tech' for some reason, and also their 4iiii cranks don't mention the 2.0, so I wonder if it's an older version.
I could pay with a charged up gift card, but that's still about £260.

Chainreaction used to be 10% off on orders over £150, but that's now a measily £10!

If anyone sees a good deal anywhere, could they please let me know :-)
It's the R8000 2.0 172.5 crank I am after.

Spokesman have come back to say if I wanted Extralite I would have to source them myself, and they don't know that much about the reliability/longevity, so will stick with their original quote. Will be my first 'new' pair of handbuilts!
Will have a virtually new qr disc brake pair to sell soon as well, bought 2nd hand off of here a while back.

azzurri78

Thats annoying about the Halfords discount. That was going to be my option but they didnt (and still dont) stock the 170mm cranks at the time.

If you can wait, my suggestion would be to keep checking PBK. I got my 4iiii Ultegra from there in the summer for £250. They were the cheapest sellers and then had a website power meter promotion (extra % off but not sure what) and I waited to order and missed out. Was annoyed but not long after they sent a 10% discount email. Which they seem to do quite often.

Alternatively, eBay could be worth a go. Wiggles eBay store are selling the exact model you need (says its new) but it ends at 9pm and, at the time of writing, is already up to £200!

daniel_b

azzurri78 said:

Thats annoying about the Halfords discount. That was going to be my option but they didnt (and still dont) stock the 170mm cranks at the time.

If you can wait, my suggestion would be to keep checking PBK. I got my 4iiii Ultegra from there in the summer for £250. They were the cheapest sellers and then had a website power meter promotion (extra % off but not sure what) and I waited to order and missed out. Was annoyed but not long after they sent a 10% discount email. Which they seem to do quite often.

Alternatively, eBay could be worth a go. Wiggles eBay store are selling the exact model you need (says its new) but it ends at 9pm and, at the time of writing, is already up to £200!

Thanks for that, I have seen PBK prices yoyo before, not unlike amazon in that way. They won't be selling any at £350, as everywhere else seems to have it between £275 - £285, so suspect it will just be a matter of time - I found a 12% code as well which worked perfectly on the pedals, and hopefully would work on the power meter as and when it comes back down again.
It won't get used in anger until the spring, so happy to sit tight and wait it out :-)

ibr17xvii

Keep an eye on Merlin for your PM, their prices do seem to yoyo as well.

£250 for the Ultegra 4iiii is a bargain, I paid not much less than that for my 105 version.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

2 hour Flash sale at PBK, £239/279 for 105/Ultegra 4iiii.

azzurri78

Was just about to post too 😄

Various vouchers around (probably capped at £25) which will bring it down to £254. Which is what I think I paid in the summer. Not sure you will get much lower than that.

daniel_b

Cheers gents, the PBK app popped this up whilst I'm waiting at the dentist!
Managed to go through TCB, so should weigh in at £247.

daniel_b

I've also just ordered a 105 version, which comes in at circa £209.
Gambled on a 172.5 which is intended for the upcoming Addict Gravel, which has a GRX groupset, but seems like this should fit perfectly well, and the GRX version would have been £318, so a hefty saving.

daniel_b

Wheels ordered now as well, though he reckons I'll need to order a couple of these (link below) to secure the rotors - does that make sense?

He also said to use the axles that came with the bike, which is not what you used to get with QR wheels.

Apologies, my knowledge of through axle wheels and how everything bolts together is basically zero.

https://bikester.co.uk/shimano-sm-hb20-centre-lock-ring-for-single-axle-hubs-M358585.html

Is there a better option I should go for, and it looks like an existing tool I have enables the fitment/removal of them?

mrb123

daniel_b said:

Wheels ordered now as well, though he reckons I'll need to order a couple of these (link below) to secure the rotors - does that make sense?

He also said to use the axles that came with the bike, which is not what you used to get with QR wheels.

Apologies, my knowledge of through axle wheels and how everything bolts together is basically zero.

https://bikester.co.uk/shimano-sm-hb20-centre-lock-ring-for-single-axle-hubs-M358585.html

Thru axles come with the bike as you've been told.

I think rotors normally come with lock rings included although they're not a universal type (Fulcrum wheels for example use different lockrings).

daniel_b

mrb123 said:

daniel_b said:

Wheels ordered now as well, though he reckons I'll need to order a couple of these (link below) to secure the rotors - does that make sense?

He also said to use the axles that came with the bike, which is not what you used to get with QR wheels.

Apologies, my knowledge of through axle wheels and how everything bolts together is basically zero.

https://bikester.co.uk/shimano-sm-hb20-centre-lock-ring-for-single-axle-hubs-M358585.html

Thru axles come with the bike as you've been told.

I think rotors normally come with lock rings included although they're not a universal type (Fulcrum wheels for example use different lockrings).

Perhaps I wait and see what the rotors come with, and see if they will fit, when I have the wheels.
In his e-mail he said:
"The XTR centrelock rotors will fit on the hubs but you are likely to need different securing bolts. Something like Shimano SM-HB20 where the tool fits on the outside to allow for the width of the thru axles."

Not having any of it to hand, I don't fully understand what that means I must be honest.

mrb123

daniel_b said:

mrb123 said:

daniel_b said:

Wheels ordered now as well, though he reckons I'll need to order a couple of these (link below) to secure the rotors - does that make sense?

He also said to use the axles that came with the bike, which is not what you used to get with QR wheels.

Apologies, my knowledge of through axle wheels and how everything bolts together is basically zero.

https://bikester.co.uk/shimano-sm-hb20-centre-lock-ring-for-single-axle-hubs-M358585.html

Thru axles come with the bike as you've been told.

I think rotors normally come with lock rings included although they're not a universal type (Fulcrum wheels for example use different lockrings).

Perhaps I wait and see what the rotors come with, and see if they will fit, when I have the wheels.
In his e-mail he said:
"The XTR centrelock rotors will fit on the hubs but you are likely to need different securing bolts. Something like Shimano SM-HB20 where the tool fits on the outside to allow for the width of the thru axles."

Not having any of it to hand, I don't fully understand what that means I must be honest.

Some lockrings have the teeth on the outside of the ring and you use a Hollowtech BB tool to do them up. Others have the teeth on the inside and I think take a cassette lockring tool. The second type won't work with all axle sizes.
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/disc-brake-rotor-removal-installation

wongataa

In my experience with my wheels that use centerlock discs the lockring that requires a Hollowtech BB tool is hard to fit on the rear wheel as the tool I have is not deep enough (it is one that fits on a socket wrench) to reach the lockring due to the amount of axle that protrudes from the wheel (no issue on the front wheel). The lockring type that uses a cassette lockring tool works perfectly.

Shimano Ultegra disc rotors definitely come with the lockrings and they are they type that works with a cassette lockring tool.

My bike uses 12mm through axles.

mrb123

wongataa said:

In my experience with my wheels that use centerlock discs the lockring that requires a Hollowtech BB tool is hard to fit on the rear wheel as the tool I have is not deep enough (it is one that fits on a socket wrench) to reach the lockring due to the amount of axle that protrudes from the wheel (no issue on the front wheel). The lockring type that uses a cassette lockring tool works perfectly.

Shimano Ultegra disc rotors definitely come with the lockrings and they are they type that works with a cassette lockring tool.

My bike uses 12mm through axles.

I've got this style tool which would presumably solve that issue with your rear wheel.
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-bb-tool-ht-ii-spanner-fitting

daniel_b

Sounds like they could be a little bit complicated then

Guess I wait and see what comes with the wheels, and the rotors, and take it from there.

I have one of those plasticky tools like Mr B above, and also a bog standard cassette tool, so hopefully that will have it covered, unless I need some new lockring nuts like Mark suggested - expect some pictures on here in a few weeks time with various queries attached

daniel_b

I've amassed a fair few bits for the Addict so far, saddle, handlebars/stem on the way, wheels, rotors, tubes, and tyres, but the mahoosive purchase needs to be the groupset.

I never thought I would see myself write this, but having been well and truly spoiled by 9100 on my Foil, I am really looking for Dura Ace on the addict, I want it to be my personal 'dream build' fancy a go with leccy gears, and want it to be light, and slick.

I was set on the new 12spd, not just for the extra cog, but for the fact I gather that the latest callipers are better at avoiding the really irritating rotor rub, which on some bikes does do my head in.

I want to purchase through C2W, but my limit is 3K, which rules out the full groupset, as it exceeds this by a margin.

So I have two options - either I plump for 11 spd Di2, which can be had for circa £2500, or I look to buy some key parts of 12 spd, if I can find somewhere that takes C2W AND has the stock - I guess I am not in a huge hurry, so can wait a bit.

I'm not fussed with the cassette, same as the Foil I would swap to an Ultegra version, as there are a ton of bad reviews out there for the Dura Ace one (At least in 11spd flavour).
BB would also not be required, and neither would rotors, though they seem to be optional in some groupsets anyway.

I could go for shifters/callipers, front and rear derailleurs, and then bung a battery and the internal cables in.

The crankset is brutally expensive, I wonder if an 11spd crankset would work with the 12spd chain (probably not) or whether I could fit 12spd absolute black chainrings to an 11spd 9100 crankset, as I would likely want to fit them anyway.

Am I missing anything obvious?

super_davo

Find a bike shop that takes additional payments over £3k with the voucher, buy the cheapest 12 speed Ultegra bike you can find, sell the frame and wheels.

I got my Venturi for £3600, £3k voucher plus £600 top up. Sold the wheels for £200, and if I didn't want to keep the frame, I could have sold it for £800.

Fair bit of work and hassle but that's about the only way you'll get an R8100 groupset in a reasonable timeframe on a C2W voucher at the moment.

imposter2.0

daniel_b said:

Am I missing anything obvious?

The complete and utter futility of it all, perhaps..?

PMark

daniel_b said:

I've amassed a fair few bits for the Addict so far, saddle, handlebars/stem on the way, wheels, rotors, tubes, and tyres, but the mahoosive purchase needs to be the groupset.

I never thought I would see myself write this, but having been well and truly spoiled by 9100 on my Foil, I am really looking for Dura Ace on the addict, I want it to be my personal 'dream build' fancy a go with leccy gears, and want it to be light, and slick.

I was set on the new 12spd, not just for the extra cog, but for the fact I gather that the latest callipers are better at avoiding the really irritating rotor rub, which on some bikes does do my head in.

I want to purchase through C2W, but my limit is 3K, which rules out the full groupset, as it exceeds this by a margin.

So I have two options - either I plump for 11 spd Di2, which can be had for circa £2500, or I look to buy some key parts of 12 spd, if I can find somewhere that takes C2W AND has the stock - I guess I am not in a huge hurry, so can wait a bit.

I'm not fussed with the cassette, same as the Foil I would swap to an Ultegra version, as there are a ton of bad reviews out there for the Dura Ace one (At least in 11spd flavour).
BB would also not be required, and neither would rotors, though they seem to be optional in some groupsets anyway.

I could go for shifters/callipers, front and rear derailleurs, and then bung a battery and the internal cables in.

The crankset is brutally expensive, I wonder if an 11spd crankset would work with the 12spd chain (probably not) or whether I could fit 12spd absolute black chainrings to an 11spd 9100 crankset, as I would likely want to fit them anyway.

Am I missing anything obvious?

GCN actually mentioned about using 11 speed cranks recently as a number of TDF teams did this (as couldn't get enough 12 speed parts). While it does technically work, it was noted there there were a lot of dropped chains that race.

But considering your price limit, it seems the sensible option will be going 11 speed Di2.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I'm not fussed with the cassette, same as the Foil I would swap to an Ultegra version, as there are a ton of bad reviews out there for the Dura Ace one

Interesting, what have the bad reviews said?

I had my Look built up about 18 months ago. Due to a couple of bits not being available, the LBS stuck a DA cassette on for basically cost price. Have to say it is extremely high quality. Shifting is flawless, but I have been really impressed by the longevity. I reckon I have done around 13-14,000km on it so far and it is barely worn. Teeth profile are still sharp and defined, you would think it had done a few hundred km.

daniel_b

super_davo said:

Find a bike shop that takes additional payments over £3k with the voucher, buy the cheapest 12 speed Ultegra bike you can find, sell the frame and wheels.

I got my Venturi for £3600, £3k voucher plus £600 top up. Sold the wheels for £200, and if I didn't want to keep the frame, I could have sold it for £800.

Fair bit of work and hassle but that's about the only way you'll get an R8100 groupset in a reasonable timeframe on a C2W voucher at the moment.

I'm after Dura Ace @super_davo I haven't looked, but suspect those bikes are more in the region of 6-7k

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I'm not fussed with the cassette, same as the Foil I would swap to an Ultegra version, as there are a ton of bad reviews out there for the Dura Ace one

Interesting, what have the bad reviews said?

I had my Look built up about 18 months ago. Due to a couple of bits not being available, the LBS stuck a DA cassette on for basically cost price. Have to say it is extremely high quality. Shifting is flawless, but I have been really impressed by the longevity. I reckon I have done around 13-14,000km on it so far and it is barely worn. Teeth profile are still sharp and defined, you would think it had done a few hundred km.

Very interesting - when my Foil arrived, I sold the wheels, cassette, and chain to 1 chap, and replaced with an Ultegra cassette.
Also because it came with an 11-32 or 34, and I wanted an 11-28 on there.

The reviews I had read (About the 9100 cassette anyway) were about it being really rattly in use, and not lasting very long - sounds like you have had the polar opposite experience though!

PMark said:

GCN actually mentioned about using 11 speed cranks recently as a number of TDF teams did this (as couldn't get enough 12 speed parts). While it does technically work, it was noted there there were a lot of dropped chains that race.

But considering your price limit, it seems the sensible option will be going 11 speed Di2.

The ideal in that case would be a 9100 crankset with whatever chainrings, which I could then replace with absolutely black 12spd chainrings - may simply not be possible though, but might be worth investigating - would end up still cheaper than a 9200 off the shelf, plus two unused chainrings to sell on.

daniel_b

I appreciate this is just one video, but his findings suggest a 9100 chainset runs fine with a 9200 setup.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ia49IYK506Y

N0bodyOfTheGoat

@daniel_b I'm clueless on Di2, but wondered if this "power hour" promo price of ~£234 for https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-cranksets-and-chainrings/shimano-ultegra-r8100-chainset/13258039.html was any use.