Cars, cars, cars...
Comments
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Errr - you what on all counts?focuszing723 said:
Matt, you're treading on bloody thin ice here. He's self made.MattFalle said:
As if he doesn't have enough to risk a tiny percentage, none of ehich he actually worked for.focuszing723 said:
He still risked his own spondulix.First.Aspect said:
That's not really the case. But nor did he risk everything on SpaceX. He risks a lot of investors' money.MattFalle said:
You're taking thepiss, yah?focuszing723 said:Musk, he made a couple of hundred million, doesn't kick back and takes on the car industry and build a space rocket.
He risked the bloody lot.
The multi, multi, multi billionaire that used to played with precious gemstones at his white parents' gem mine in apartheid S.A. but has done absolutely nothing of any worth with all his money?
!! I WIIL NOT STAND TO HAVE GREATNESS DISPARAGED !!
#Seriously?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Come on Matt, just playing up to the Musk fanboi persona.MattFalle said:
Errr - you what on all counts?focuszing723 said:
Matt, you're treading on bloody thin ice here. He's self made.MattFalle said:
As if he doesn't have enough to risk a tiny percentage, none of ehich he actually worked for.focuszing723 said:
He still risked his own spondulix.First.Aspect said:
That's not really the case. But nor did he risk everything on SpaceX. He risks a lot of investors' money.MattFalle said:
You're taking thepiss, yah?focuszing723 said:Musk, he made a couple of hundred million, doesn't kick back and takes on the car industry and build a space rocket.
He risked the bloody lot.
The multi, multi, multi billionaire that used to played with precious gemstones at his white parents' gem mine in apartheid S.A. but has done absolutely nothing of any worth with all his money?
!! I WIIL NOT STAND TO HAVE GREATNESS DISPARAGED !!
#Seriously?1 -
Oh no... [face palm].MattFalle said:
Errr - you what on all counts?focuszing723 said:
Matt, you're treading on bloody thin ice here. He's self made.MattFalle said:
As if he doesn't have enough to risk a tiny percentage, none of ehich he actually worked for.focuszing723 said:
He still risked his own spondulix.First.Aspect said:
That's not really the case. But nor did he risk everything on SpaceX. He risks a lot of investors' money.MattFalle said:
You're taking thepiss, yah?focuszing723 said:Musk, he made a couple of hundred million, doesn't kick back and takes on the car industry and build a space rocket.
He risked the bloody lot.
The multi, multi, multi billionaire that used to played with precious gemstones at his white parents' gem mine in apartheid S.A. but has done absolutely nothing of any worth with all his money?
!! I WIIL NOT STAND TO HAVE GREATNESS DISPARAGED !!
#Seriously?
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Not necessarily. There's a number of caveats.surrey_commuter said:If it was not diesel I would say keep it and run it into the ground.
I think there is a big risk to residual values of diesel cars. Though Pinno’s last sentence suggests the trade is already factoring this in
Executive cars have long been susceptible to depreciation outwith warranty periods. Executives don't want to drive second hand Beemers, Mercs Audi's etc.
No fleet purchases would involve the purchase of 2nd hand cars.
People (wrongly) assume that a second hand executive car will present potentially high future cost of repair and maintenance. I have found the opposite true - after 5 years the aftermarket spares market has truly kicked in and the existing OEM parts have become a storage problem with much reduced demand.
Have a look at 2nd hand S Class Mercs (at the top of the luxury car market). These things have been driving PM's and German chancellors and Presidents around for time immemorial. No one wants a 2nd hand S Class and you can pick them up for a song.
My mate bought an 8 year old Range Rover V8 SE for £8k. That thing cost £87k new. That's massive depreciation (oh and contrary to the above) very very expensive when they go wrong. He had to replace the power steering pump _ labour costs @ over £2k.
You choose 2nd hand wisely. Do not buy an older Audi. Audi's have unique software. Friend bought an Audi A6 for £795 with a cracked windscreen. Windscreen insurance did not pay for the programming (rain/light sensors) when the screen was replaced... £450 later and only with Audi technicians because that software is not widely available at an affordable price for independent garages..
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
So what would you recommend Pino for good value 2nd hands, including running/service/stuff goes wrong costs?0
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You already know he'll suggest Porsche.rick_chasey said:So what would you recommend Pino for good value 2nd hands, including running/service/stuff goes wrong costs?
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BMWrick_chasey said:So what would you recommend Pino for good value 2nd hands, including running/service/stuff goes wrong costs?
VW
Skoda (Skoda is part of the VAG group). Slight concerns about the depreciation of the Octavia and the Superb though. So whilst there is a lower purchasing cost than say a Passat, you will suffer higher depreciation. It's the same story with another VAG acquisition - SEAT.
Volvo (although slightly pricey to insure* and still hold high 2nd hand value and slightly more expensive running costs). On the plus side, they are extremely reliable and well built.
*Complex safety features making crash repair expensive.
Ford's have come along way. Interestingly, they don't make much money selling cars. They make most of their profit on warranty/service packages/finance and spares!
The current batch of Focus and Fiestas represent good VFM. Great MPG, well built and inexpensive I see so many 10 year old plus Fords that are still amazingly clean.
Mercedes bought Chrysler out in '98. 4 years later they franchised all of the dealers and so dealers have to pay for the privilege of selling Mercs so prices doubled and for a good 10 years, Mercs were rust buckets as the bean counters tried to absorb the cost of inorganic expansion* by making production and metal sourcing preparation cheaper. (*Something BMW got burnt by when they purchased the Rover Group).
I don't think Mercedes have ever recovered in terms of customer service and build quality.
I cannot really speak for non-European cars having never owned a Japanese car for example - you would have to ask someone who was more informed.
Although I would be tempted by a Lexus (Toyota) or a Honda - although for me, they tick no street cred boxes and I don't want a Subaru Imprezza/Mitsubishi Evo.
No one I know who have owned a Japanese car have every really said anything really bad about them.
French cars are only very good for 100,000 miles*. After that it's a lottery. Same as Alfa's/Fiat's. Although, you could say that modern cars are reliable - there's no single make that you can categorically state as 'unreliable'. Alfas need silly and expensive belt changes every 45 to 55k depending on the model. Few dealers around and even fewer indies to fix them.
Don't be fooled into buying a cheap 2nd hand Alfa. They are only really worth buying under warranty or if you have local access to an indie.
*I would put Peugeot's aside from that a little. They're pretty good and their diesels are well built engines. They used to supply Ford with diesel engines and Renault in their peak supplied Volvo with their petrol engines. Believe it or not.
Jaguars are quite good except that are embellished Ford Mondeo's - similar floor pan and Ford engines. So you pay a premium for a Mondeo in executive clothing as well as being heavier with poor consumption figures and relatively pi$$ poor performance.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there is a lot of commonality of parts for Audi/VW/Skoda/Seat so you can save a lot of money by buying the lower version if available.pinno said:
BMWrick_chasey said:So what would you recommend Pino for good value 2nd hands, including running/service/stuff goes wrong costs?
VW
Skoda (Skoda is part of the VAG group). Slight concerns about the depreciation of the Octavia and the Superb though. So whilst there is a lower purchasing cost than say a Passat, you will suffer higher depreciation. It's the same story with another VAG acquisition - SEAT.
...The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That's helpful, thanks.
I regret not getting a fiesta over a polo, but down the road I may need a bigger car, so i'm keeping an eye on estate cars and their cost/running cost to get an idea.
Depreciation is a bit weird though at the moment. I bought my polo almost 5 years ago now and it would go for near the same price I bought it for.0 -
My wife hates driving 'big' cars (or rather she hates the idea of it) so we kept the peugeot 205 we bought when we left London for 8 years, during that time we managed to pack it tight enough for 4 of us to go on holiday, weekend trips and even camping with the tent, all the gear etc.
I'll never understand people who think they need a range rover to transport a family of 3 (not suggesting that is you RC)
We now have a Focus after the 205 gearbox went pop. I was pushing for a Cmax to give us a bit more space but got vetoed. Was probably the right call tbh, I can't think when we would actually need a bigger boot.rick_chasey said:That's helpful, thanks.
I regret not getting a fiesta over a polo, but down the road I may need a bigger car, so i'm keeping an eye on estate cars and their cost/running cost to get an idea.
Depreciation is a bit weird though at the moment. I bought my polo almost 5 years ago now and it would go for near the same price I bought it for.0 -
Gotchs. Soz. My bad. Sometimes this place is bewildering and, tbh, anything to do with Musk riles me so much i go off on one, which as we all know is unlike me.focuszing723 said:
Come on Matt, just playing up to the Musk fanboi persona.MattFalle said:
Errr - you what on all counts?focuszing723 said:
Matt, you're treading on bloody thin ice here. He's self made.MattFalle said:
As if he doesn't have enough to risk a tiny percentage, none of ehich he actually worked for.focuszing723 said:
He still risked his own spondulix.First.Aspect said:
That's not really the case. But nor did he risk everything on SpaceX. He risks a lot of investors' money.MattFalle said:
You're taking thepiss, yah?focuszing723 said:Musk, he made a couple of hundred million, doesn't kick back and takes on the car industry and build a space rocket.
He risked the bloody lot.
The multi, multi, multi billionaire that used to played with precious gemstones at his white parents' gem mine in apartheid S.A. but has done absolutely nothing of any worth with all his money?
!! I WIIL NOT STAND TO HAVE GREATNESS DISPARAGED !!
#Seriously?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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So Musk isn't an sltruistic, generous, philanthropic purveyor of joy to all then?
#oh.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Ah, no probs Matt. It's a good reminder for me to rein it in a bit too.MattFalle said:
Gotchs. Soz. My bad. Sometimes this place is bewildering and, tbh, anything to do with Musk riles me so much i go off on one, which as we all know is unlike me.focuszing723 said:
Come on Matt, just playing up to the Musk fanboi persona.MattFalle said:
Errr - you what on all counts?focuszing723 said:
Matt, you're treading on bloody thin ice here. He's self made.MattFalle said:
As if he doesn't have enough to risk a tiny percentage, none of ehich he actually worked for.focuszing723 said:
He still risked his own spondulix.First.Aspect said:
That's not really the case. But nor did he risk everything on SpaceX. He risks a lot of investors' money.MattFalle said:
You're taking thepiss, yah?focuszing723 said:Musk, he made a couple of hundred million, doesn't kick back and takes on the car industry and build a space rocket.
He risked the bloody lot.
The multi, multi, multi billionaire that used to played with precious gemstones at his white parents' gem mine in apartheid S.A. but has done absolutely nothing of any worth with all his money?
!! I WIIL NOT STAND TO HAVE GREATNESS DISPARAGED !!
#Seriously?1 -
Not sure I could have managed a camping trip for 4 in a Peugeot 205. I managed two of us plus all our gear in a 1985 Fiesta but for the 4 of us we were fully loaded in both a Focus estate and a Nissan Qashqai. Admittedly that is for a comfortable 2 weeks stay rather than anything basic. For me that sort of size is the minimum for a family car, I did have a Mini for 3 years that was our day-to-day transport but we did also have a Frontera that was used for towing and general load lugging when needed.0
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Three of us (adults) managed a week long camping trip in a 70s Mini.Pross said:Not sure I could have managed a camping trip for 4 in a Peugeot 205...
A roof rack was required though.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I know you're asking him, but IME a VW Polo makes a great second hand buy. We now have two and really have minimal trouble and very low running costs. But I guess you already know that...rick_chasey said:So what would you recommend Pino for good value 2nd hands, including running/service/stuff goes wrong costs?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Main thing is, they don't really go wrong, even the older one. And the fuel economy is pretty damn good - which is kind of expected for a small car with a small engine. Certainly compared to other cars they are good on running costs.rick_chasey said:Mmmm I don't have any comparisons. All car stuff seems expensive tbh.
Insurance-wise you may suffer a bit from being in town/parked on the road and maybe even age
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
A Polo is about as good as you will get for a cheap run around. Relatively cheap, well built, will last for decades and reliable. May as well stick. That changes if you need bigger.rick_chasey said:Mmmm I don't have any comparisons. All car stuff seems expensive tbh.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
No - never rein it in.focuszing723 said:
Ah, no probs Matt. It's a good reminder for me to rein it in a bit too.MattFalle said:
Gotchs. Soz. My bad. Sometimes this place is bewildering and, tbh, anything to do with Musk riles me so much i go off on one, which as we all know is unlike me.focuszing723 said:
Come on Matt, just playing up to the Musk fanboi persona.MattFalle said:
Errr - you what on all counts?focuszing723 said:
Matt, you're treading on bloody thin ice here. He's self made.MattFalle said:
As if he doesn't have enough to risk a tiny percentage, none of ehich he actually worked for.focuszing723 said:
He still risked his own spondulix.First.Aspect said:
That's not really the case. But nor did he risk everything on SpaceX. He risks a lot of investors' money.MattFalle said:
You're taking thepiss, yah?focuszing723 said:Musk, he made a couple of hundred million, doesn't kick back and takes on the car industry and build a space rocket.
He risked the bloody lot.
The multi, multi, multi billionaire that used to played with precious gemstones at his white parents' gem mine in apartheid S.A. but has done absolutely nothing of any worth with all his money?
!! I WIIL NOT STAND TO HAVE GREATNESS DISPARAGED !!
#Seriously?
Reining it in is a sign of weakness.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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It was actually a 207, not that it makes a big difference.
It was a bit of a squeeze, a 6 man tent takes most of the boot but it encourages you to only take what you need.
Ironically, I have just accepted a new job where I will get a work vehicle that is likely going to be avan or 4x4 hilux type thing, maybe it will convert me to big vehicles.Pross said:Not sure I could have managed a camping trip for 4 in a Peugeot 205. I managed two of us plus all our gear in a 1985 Fiesta but for the 4 of us we were fully loaded in both a Focus estate and a Nissan Qashqai. Admittedly that is for a comfortable 2 weeks stay rather than anything basic. For me that sort of size is the minimum for a family car, I did have a Mini for 3 years that was our day-to-day transport but we did also have a Frontera that was used for towing and general load lugging when needed.
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There's less depreciation on the smaller, more economical cars. This is accentuated more in the current climate than before.rick_chasey said:That's helpful, thanks.
I regret not getting a fiesta over a polo, but down the road I may need a bigger car, so i'm keeping an eye on estate cars and their cost/running cost to get an idea.
Depreciation is a bit weird though at the moment. I bought my polo almost 5 years ago now and it would go for near the same price I bought it for.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Yes of course and even... Porsche parts.pblakeney said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there is a lot of commonality of parts for Audi/VW/Skoda/Seat so you can save a lot of money by buying the lower version if available.pinno said:
BMWrick_chasey said:So what would you recommend Pino for good value 2nd hands, including running/service/stuff goes wrong costs?
VW
Skoda (Skoda is part of the VAG group). Slight concerns about the depreciation of the Octavia and the Superb though. So whilst there is a lower purchasing cost than say a Passat, you will suffer higher depreciation. It's the same story with another VAG acquisition - SEAT.
...
But as far as Audi's go, they have a lot of tech in them that requires software to run it.
Another example (aside from the A6 above).
My good friend is head mechanic/technician at VW Audi in one of the Brighton branches. We call him lofty; he's 5 foot nothing.
Guy comes in with his 2 month old Audi. He had put the window down in hot weather and the window would not go up. Lofty said to him 'we can put your window up but you cannot use it until the new software comes in'. It was a blue tooth error. A sort of drive by wireless set up in that power to the window is the only cable because the signal for up or down/door lock etc is sent from a management system to a receiver in the door.
Neighbour of my mad mini friend had an Audi with an auto box fault and a leak. After describing the fault, Audi quoted £3500 before they even looked at it.
Basically, they were going to pull the box and replace it, re-program etc. They would not consider an investigation or attempt to fix it and no-one else would touch it.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
We had a '11 plate VW polo 1.1 bluemotion and every service, something would go wrong. Ended up costing a fortune, which was extremely frustrating.
Current car is an '18 plate Skoda Superb with 45k miles
What else could I buy for £18k that would compare? To me it makes more sense just to keep it.
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That's weird. My wife has an 2009 1.4. Oil, filters, tyres and pads. Plugs every 30k (maybe). The front discs maybe once. That's it. Oh, and the rear exhaust section.shirley_basso said:We had a '11 plate VW polo 1.1 bluemotion and every service, something would go wrong. Ended up costing a fortune, which was extremely frustrating...
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I think we were unlucky but it was a money pit0
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Likewise, the ladies of the house here have a 65 plate 1.0 and a 19 plate 1.2 and they are near on faultless. Like yours, they just need consumables once in a blue moon.pblakeney said:
That's weird. My wife has an 2009 1.4. Oil, filters, tyres and pads. Plugs every 30k (maybe). The front discs maybe once. That's it. Oh, and the rear exhaust section.shirley_basso said:We had a '11 plate VW polo 1.1 bluemotion and every service, something would go wrong. Ended up costing a fortune, which was extremely frustrating...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
New?shirley_basso said:We had a '11 plate VW polo 1.1 bluemotion and every service, something would go wrong. Ended up costing a fortune, which was extremely frustrating.
Current car is an '18 plate Skoda Superb with 45k miles
What else could I buy for £18k that would compare? To me it makes more sense just to keep it.
Personally, I wouldn't bother. Wait 2-3 years if you are happy with it and sell through the likes of Motorway (not we buy any car - they are charlatans) and put it towards another similar car or part x.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Well the PCP is up so I have to do something.pinno said:
New?shirley_basso said:We had a '11 plate VW polo 1.1 bluemotion and every service, something would go wrong. Ended up costing a fortune, which was extremely frustrating.
Current car is an '18 plate Skoda Superb with 45k miles
What else could I buy for £18k that would compare? To me it makes more sense just to keep it.
Personally, I wouldn't bother. Wait 2-3 years if you are happy with it and sell through the likes of Motorway (not we buy any car - they are charlatans) and put it towards another similar car or part x.
Either refinance for the buyback price (10k) or trade in for 18k and get the same again. No real upgrades on current Vs my model.
I think keep it, pocket the £120 per month, suck up the costs and see what happens in 4y time.0 -
How feasible would road use charging be ?
What don't you like about the Polo Rick. I had 250,000 miles out of one and I didn't look after it.rick_chasey said:That's helpful, thanks.
I regret not getting a fiesta over a polo, but down the road I may need a bigger car, so i'm keeping an eye on estate cars and their cost/running cost to get an idea.
Depreciation is a bit weird though at the moment. I bought my polo almost 5 years ago now and it would go for near the same price I bought it for.
Compare that to the Fiat I've just scrapped after 140k that had been regularly serviced and driven far more responsibly.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
