Cars, cars, cars...

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  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    wavefront said:

    The new Range Rover is a very good car. Very. Very. Very good. It’s just a huge shame that idiots and very vulgar people will drive them and the brand has become synonymous with that type of customer. But I don’t think RR will see it as a bad thing as there are plenty of that type queuing up to buy one.

    Like quite a few 4x4s they're really good if you actually take them off road. As road cars, they're rubbish. Too heavy, too high a centre of gravity, wallowy suspension, poor handling, brick-like aerodynamics and not a lot of interior space for the size of car. Vans do the same job a lot cheaper and with better interior space.

    If you want a practical car that's good to drive*, get an estate. I did. (* choose wisely, obviously)
    Sales figure don't reflect that. Christ! Even Lamborghini (Urus their best selling car), Ferrari, Porsche, Rolls Royce, Bentley...and your beloved Germans make SUV's now.

    Honestly, have you ever driven one?
    I never mentioned sales figures. You'll see I said 'quite a few' 4x4s - some are really meant to be off readers, others are more road oriented.

    Also I'm talking about fitness for purpose. If people want to buy them for a different purpose then fine, it's a free course try. Doesn't mean they have chosen well though. Probably a triumph of marketing.

    Yes, I have driven a few...how about you?
    No, SUV's haven't been around forever so people would have had more traditional styled cars prior. If they thought they were $h1t the market would have declined by now.

    Yes, I have one.
    Again, who mentioned them being around forever?

    Anyhow, good for you. What make and model? And do you take it off road? Let's see if you're attempting a spot of purchase justification.
    Are you mad I might scratch it, unlike some I like to keep my life private.
    Not a high end model then? ;)

    I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours...
    Like I said.

    We know you like to brag, good for you though if you like it.
    Saying what make and model of car you own is hardly giving away excessive private info about yourself. Excuses...
    Ok then, let's just leave them at an excuse.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,317
    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,317
    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    Some car companies are lobbying govt to increase the 3.5T weight limit for normal driving license.

    So yeah, imagine the batteries in that.....
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    First.Aspect said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    Some car companies are lobbying govt to increase the 3.5T weight limit for normal driving license.

    So yeah, imagine the batteries in that.....
    Blimey. The Tesla Cyber truck must be pretty weighty.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
    1st step is that free charging will be free no more.
    Once everyone is all electric I can see a car fuel surcharge tax being implemented.

    There was a time when diesel had a lower tax to make everyone more fuel efficient and was much cheaper than unleaded. Anyone still use LPG?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    Besides the total tax number, there’s also an important timing issue.

    Right now, a lot of the purchase premium of going electric is offset by lower running costs.

    As soon as the government balances the books on tax revenue from motoring, the running cost benefit is eroded and you’re just paying a lot more for your car upfront with nominal saving to be had.

    What will happen is ICE cars will just become more and more expensive as manufacturing economies of scale are lost. What we’ve witnessed is a step change increase in the cost of motoring.

    Not saying this doesn’t need to happen but I don’t see the consumer benefitting in the short to mid term.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
    1st step is that free charging will be free no more.
    Once everyone is all electric I can see a car fuel surcharge tax being implemented.

    There was a time when diesel had a lower tax to make everyone more fuel efficient and was much cheaper than unleaded. Anyone still use LPG?
    Yeah, and then they decided perhaps it wasn't quite so good for the environment.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    morstar said:


    ...
    Not saying this doesn’t need to happen but I don’t see the consumer benefitting in the short to mid term.

    Can I point out that we cyclists already have a cheap alternative to most car use? 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
    1st step is that free charging will be free no more.
    Once everyone is all electric I can see a car fuel surcharge tax being implemented.

    There was a time when diesel had a lower tax to make everyone more fuel efficient and was much cheaper than unleaded. Anyone still use LPG?
    Yeah, and then they decided perhaps it wasn't quite so good for the environment.
    Better for the environment, worse for public health. Which is exaggerated these days. Dirty secret about electric cars is their tyre wear is much higher due to mass, and that causes a good proportion of the worst particulates anyway.

    The batteries really need to get smaller and a lot lighter. And a lot cheaper.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
    1st step is that free charging will be free no more.
    Once everyone is all electric I can see a car fuel surcharge tax being implemented.

    There was a time when diesel had a lower tax to make everyone more fuel efficient and was much cheaper than unleaded. Anyone still use LPG?
    Yeah, and then they decided perhaps it wasn't quite so good for the environment.
    The push against diesel was due to health concerns, not the environment.
    That was simply a handy by-product which could be further leaned on.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
    1st step is that free charging will be free no more.
    Once everyone is all electric I can see a car fuel surcharge tax being implemented.

    There was a time when diesel had a lower tax to make everyone more fuel efficient and was much cheaper than unleaded. Anyone still use LPG?
    Yeah, and then they decided perhaps it wasn't quite so good for the environment.
    The push against diesel was due to health concerns, not the environment.
    That was simply a handy by-product which could be further leaned on.
    Yep, my stupidity.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    First.Aspect said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pblakeney said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    focuszing723 said:

    pinno said:

    RR - EPA-Estimated 22 mpg city / 28 mpg highway / 24 mpg combined
    Hilux - Power comes from a 150PS 2.4-litre diesel engine that is capable of returning fuel economy of 40.4mpg

    Some are hybrids now and they are proposing to make an all electric one. Can you imagine the batteries in that?
    You would have to tow Sellafield mark 2 in a trailer.
    Yeah. I does make you wonder how they will get all the power if things do go truly electric. Also the tax not being collected via road duty and fuel.
    Only the deluded believe taxes will not change with circumstances.
    I just wonder how they will go about it. Road duty on EV's is easy enough to start applying. I can't imagine they would do it with increased electricity costs? Also, there is the backlash from the pro eco side to contend with. Tricky.
    1st step is that free charging will be free no more.
    Once everyone is all electric I can see a car fuel surcharge tax being implemented.

    There was a time when diesel had a lower tax to make everyone more fuel efficient and was much cheaper than unleaded. Anyone still use LPG?
    Yeah, and then they decided perhaps it wasn't quite so good for the environment.
    Better for the environment, worse for public health. Which is exaggerated these days. Dirty secret about electric cars is their tyre wear is much higher due to mass, and that causes a good proportion of the worst particulates anyway.

    The batteries really need to get smaller and a lot lighter. And a lot cheaper.
    That's true. I guess with EV's there is less wear on brakes(re-gen) and no oil to dispose of as positives.

    Brake dust is the source of approximately 20% of total PM2. 5 traffic pollution. PM2. 5 means the particles are less than 2.5 micrometres in diameter and small enough to be inhaled into the deepest regions of the lung.10 Jan 2020
    https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2020/01/10/brake-pad-pollution-as-bad-as-that-from-diesel-exhaust#:~:text=Brake dust is the source,deepest regions of the lung.
    I didn't know that actually, I only found out by a Google.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited June 2022
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8il5ohB8FYk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc
    https://mcmurtry.com/speirling/
    It broke the Goodwood hill climb record today, 39.08s
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Its quite mental that, innit?
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,797
    Absolutely nuts! Looks twitchier than a Whirlpool washing machine on high spin with an unbalanced load though. Fair play to Max for having the balls to drive that thing flat out up that course.


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Basically a massive fan sucking it to the ground?
    _
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,317
    That's ^ crazy quick.

    Have a look at this on board footage. It's remarkable from a number of perspectives. I have driven on track in a car that's not actually very quick and it takes my 100% mental capacity (a lot of that due to traffic).
    If I try to imagine the braking points, acceleration, modulation of the throttle etc in this video, it's way beyond my mental processing capacity - beyond 'playstation quick'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug

    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    rick_chasey said:

    Basically a massive fan sucking it to the ground?

    Yeah, Gordon Murray came up with the concept in 1978 F1, I think it was. I've rambled on about it in the Tory thread. You can see all the dust flying about.

    The T.50 was there too.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited June 2022
    MattFalle said:

    Its quite mental that, innit?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAJaGAMWjHM
    Yes, I like the gasps from the crowd. It was akin to the IDR VW when it broke the Pike Peaks record. The same car the Mcmurtry Speirling beat at Goodwood.

    Interesting how quick it could do Pikes Peak too. High altitude there, so it suits EV's
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited June 2022
    pinno said:

    That's ^ crazy quick.

    Have a look at this on board footage. It's remarkable from a number of perspectives. I have driven on track in a car that's not actually very quick and it takes my 100% mental capacity (a lot of that due to traffic).
    If I try to imagine the braking points, acceleration, modulation of the throttle etc in this video, it's way beyond my mental processing capacity - beyond 'playstation quick'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug

    Yeah, it's incredible how the drivers can react in time and push to those limits.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    MattFalle said:

    Its quite mental that, innit?

    Saw it briefly in the flesh a few years ago as I have been doing a bit of work for the company making it but wasn't allowed a proper look without having signed an NDA. Quite impressive for something that has been developed in a few barns. I think they are looking at developing a site for EV manufacturing attracting some of the big players.

    McMurtry is a less showy version of Dyson, very much self-made of the back of his engineering skills. Not sure if he was the main brains behind this or just provides the financial backing.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    pinno said:

    That's ^ crazy quick.

    Have a look at this on board footage. It's remarkable from a number of perspectives. I have driven on track in a car that's not actually very quick and it takes my 100% mental capacity (a lot of that due to traffic).
    If I try to imagine the braking points, acceleration, modulation of the throttle etc in this video, it's way beyond my mental processing capacity - beyond 'playstation quick'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug

    Looks like a slow Aygo, tbh.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,797
    Pross said:

    MattFalle said:

    Its quite mental that, innit?


    McMurtry is a less showy version of Dyson, very much self-made of the back of his engineering skills. Not sure if he was the main brains behind this or just provides the financial backing.
    McMurtry and his partner John Deer set up their business Renishaw in a garage in Chepstow in the late 70's. My uncle new them both very well and had a small number of shares in the company. I've photographed McMurtry. He's a very humble, extremely intelligent chap.


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,317
    Renishaw is a superb company to work for.
    Some time ago, they turned down the offer of floating the whole business on the stock exchange on ethical grounds.
    They kept a 51% share.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited June 2022
    pinno said:

    Renishaw is a superb company to work for.
    Some time ago, they turned down the offer of floating the whole business on the stock exchange on ethical grounds.
    They kept a 51% share.

    Yep, you've got to hand it to people who set up from scratch and make large companies who employ lots of people and help with the countries balance of trade.

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