The End Of Campagnolo?

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  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,626
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:



    In what way does a bike geometry need to change to accommodate a front mech?

    Look how close your derailleur is to your tyre. Now imagine fitting a fat tyre.
    1x are irrelevant for road use IMO.
    Been a while since I've seen Q factor listed on a geometry chart....

    My take is that 1x is a way for manufacturers to use road BBs for wider tyres, rather than going to a mtb standard.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    First.Aspect said:

    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:



    In what way does a bike geometry need to change to accommodate a front mech?

    Look how close your derailleur is to your tyre. Now imagine fitting a fat tyre.
    1x are irrelevant for road use IMO.
    Been a while since I've seen Q factor listed on a geometry chart....

    My take is that 1x is a way for manufacturers to use road BBs for wider tyres, rather than going to a mtb standard.
    That's the decision that has to be made to get the clearance for fat tyres.
    What's easier? A new bike with longer stays, a new bike with wider BB, or go 1x?

    I just checked mine and the limiting factor on width is not so much the derailleur itself as it is the same width as the stays. The limiting factor is the derailleur cable.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,626
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:

    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:



    In what way does a bike geometry need to change to accommodate a front mech?

    Look how close your derailleur is to your tyre. Now imagine fitting a fat tyre.
    1x are irrelevant for road use IMO.
    Been a while since I've seen Q factor listed on a geometry chart....

    My take is that 1x is a way for manufacturers to use road BBs for wider tyres, rather than going to a mtb standard.
    That's the decision that has to be made to get the clearance for fat tyres.
    What's easier? A new bike with longer stays, a new bike with wider BB, or go 1x?

    I just checked mine and the limiting factor on width is not so much the derailleur itself as it is the same width as the stays. The limiting factor is the derailleur cable.
    It is the light, strong, cheap dilemma in another form I suppose.

    If your tyres are so wide you need to make the decision, you are riding a drop bar mtb anyway....

    Anything related to cable run has already been solved, or is moot for electronic shifting.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    First.Aspect said:



    If your tyres are so wide you need to make the decision, you are riding a drop bar mtb anyway....

    I thought we'd already established that this is the best* use for 1x, gravel bikes.
    Any discussion about road bikes were effectively killed off by Aqua Blue.

    *P-R may be an outlier due to roughness and parcour. A chain catcher is probably more effective though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,612
    edited April 2022
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:



    If your tyres are so wide you need to make the decision, you are riding a drop bar mtb anyway....

    I thought we'd already established that this is the best* use for 1x, gravel bikes.
    Any discussion about road bikes were effectively killed off by Aqua Blue.

    *P-R may be an outlier due to roughness and parcour. A chain catcher is probably more effective though.
    I am just a bit sceptical about the material difference between gravel and road and the legitimate requirement for a bespoke groupset settup, so was curious to see if there was some legitimate reason for being different to both MTB *and* road.

    Gravel is just slower and bumpier road, right? I mean, back in the day, road riding *was* gravel riding.
    _
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    With over 100 new technology patents and expansion of their electronics engineering department it really is the death knell for Campagnolo :-(

    https://bikerumor.com/campagnolo-posts-record-sales-teases-dream-bigger-innovation-whats-next-for-campy/
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    rick_chasey said:



    Gravel is just slower and bumpier road, right? I mean, back in the day, road riding *was* gravel riding.

    Yeah, but nobody had tyres wider than 28mm, a 40/44 gear ratio and the marketing departments hadn't realised the potential.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    pblakeney said:

    First.Aspect said:



    In what way does a bike geometry need to change to accommodate a front mech?

    Look how close your derailleur is to your tyre. Now imagine fitting a fat tyre.
    1x are irrelevant for road use IMO.
    What he said. The compromise is that putting a fat tyre in road bike dimensions means there is insufficient clearance for the tail end of the front mech, so you would have to lengthen the chain stays in order to move the tyre backwards out of the way.

    1x eliminates that need allowing you to run fatter tyres up to the point where you need much wider chainstays and either compromise on the max size of front ring, or use a wider BB axle standard (like DUB).
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,736
    Just working it through in my head. On a road bike at a push the smallest "big" gear I'd want is a 50*12 (I'd have to check if I'm running a 50 or 52*36 but call it a 50). On my 11 speed I've got either an 11 or 12-25 fitted, so on a modern 13 speed add a couple of bigger sprockets and the equivalent might be an 11-32.

    A 50*32 is still a bigger gear than my my current 36*25 - and at 54 living in Derbyshire that is already on the limit of what I find acceptable so for me 1x on the road doesn't offer the range I need without annoying gaps in the gears available - and I'd want the option for a wider range still if I was travelling to the Alps etc.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    I can't be ar$ed checking, but why has this tuned into a 1x on a road bike discussion?
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,073
    I think it was someone mentioning Ekar has really helped Campag's OEM spec and it's a 1x gravel groupset.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,612
    thegreatdivide said:

    I can't be ar$ed checking, but why has this tuned into a 1x on a road bike discussion?

    That was me. I was asking why Ekar was a big deal, and it turns out it's the best 1x groupset.
    _
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036
    joeyhalloran said:

    rick_chasey said:

    If dropped chains were an issue on road bikes surely they’d all be rocking 1x on P-R, not least as they don’t need a wide range?

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/longo-borghinis-race-winning-trek-domane-the-perfect-bike-for-paris-roubaix/

    They were. 1x has a 100% win streak at the women's PR.
    That is a superb bike
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,073
    "Earlier this year Shimano revealed that during 2021, its centenary year, its bicycle division achieved turnover of ¥443.7 billion (£2.8 billion), a near 50 per cent increase on the previous 12 months."

    From:
    https://road.cc/content/news/shimano-global-covid-19-cycling-boom-cooling-down-292313


    I know Campagnolo had s good time over the pandemic but an increase turnover of 50% is even more astonishing isn't it? Basically everyone in the bike industry had an unexpected bumper year and now has some extra profit sloshing around to reinvest?

  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    And there you go...

    https://cyclingtips.com/2022/05/campagnolo-dream-bigger-future-products/

    I note that one of the comments at the bottom of the article highlights that Huang was one of the instigators of the 'Campagnolo is doomed' hype.

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