The End Of Campagnolo?

tt11

So, what are your opinions - are we witnesses to the end of Campagnolo? Is it as far as it goes for Vicenza?
New 2022 Shimano offerings seem to be real killers & SRAM is also a super formidable player these days. What are your general thoughts on Campagnolo? Will they survive 2022 and open a new chapter in 2023 with some new stuff?

Ncovidius

tt11 said:

So, what are your opinions - are we witnesses to the end of Campagnolo? Is it as far as it goes for Vicenza?
New 2022 Shimano offerings seem to be real killers & SRAM is also a super formidable player these days. What are your general thoughts on Campagnolo? Will they survive 2022 and open a new chapter in 2023 with some new stuff?

They’ve really only just got the 12 speed hydraulic SR road and 13 speed gravel Ekar sets established. There’s no way they are going anywhere soon. Personally I prefer my brake levers to not have to multi task, and for the set to be at least slightly reliable, so I will keep backing Campagnolo for the foreseeable future.

gethinceri

Well, they are the “Johnny come latelys” in comparison to Shimano so, yes, they’ve got no chance.

slowmart

Shimano reliable, well manufactured with strong product design behind them
sram, IMHO , not as robust or the product design of the above.
Campagnolo, I get what they do and there seems to be a rich vein of riders who appreciate the design, beauty and functionality of their kit whilst willing to pay a premium over Shimano.

I doubt Campag shareholders are lying awake at night wondering what the competition are doing. They have a strong product line and a wealth of in house expertise for future development.

elbowloh

slowmart said:

Shimano reliable, well manufactured with strong product design behind them
sram, IMHO , not as robust or the product design of the above.
Campagnolo, I get what they do and there seems to be a rich vein of riders who appreciate the design, beauty and functionality of their kit whilst willing to pay a premium over Shimano.

I doubt Campag shareholders are lying awake at night wondering what the competition are doing. They have a strong product line and a wealth of in house expertise for future development.

I have Chorus 12 and Ultegra mechanical groupsets.

When I bought the Chorus set it was significantly less than Ultegra and imo, functions better.

pblakeney

I remember a time when you could go years without anything new of note being released. Simpler times.

imposter2.0

Suntour ftw...

dennisn

gethinceri said:

Well, they are the “Johnny come latelys” in comparison to Shimano so, yes, they’ve got no chance.

Nothing lasts forever.

ugo.santalucia

dennisn said:

gethinceri said:

Well, they are the “Johnny come latelys” in comparison to Shimano so, yes, they’ve got no chance.

Nothing lasts forever.

How about cold November rain?

elbowloh

Or twinkies... apparently.

DeVlaeminck

elbowloh said:

slowmart said:

Shimano reliable, well manufactured with strong product design behind them
sram, IMHO , not as robust or the product design of the above.
Campagnolo, I get what they do and there seems to be a rich vein of riders who appreciate the design, beauty and functionality of their kit whilst willing to pay a premium over Shimano.

I doubt Campag shareholders are lying awake at night wondering what the competition are doing. They have a strong product line and a wealth of in house expertise for future development.

I have Chorus 12 and Ultegra mechanical groupsets.

When I bought the Chorus set it was significantly less than Ultegra and imo, functions better.

Exactly - I don't get why some people assume Campag users only choose it for the looks or the heritage - some of us just prefer it to the equivalently priced competition.

Fwiw IF Shimano do abandon mechanical at the top end far from killing Campag it should be a boost.

amrushton

Its becoming a boutique groupset. This isnt bad just means that some people like Toyota/Honda others like Ferrari. Ferrari doesnt sell lots of cars like others but is a niche maker. Someone would snap Campagnolo up if the price was right just for the history and the catalogue. Who doesnt want a set of Bora wheels?

Ncovidius

amrushton said:

Who doesnt want a set of Bora wheels?

Technically, I love them. Unfortunately the G3 lacing has come to represent the ‘look at me’ brigade, however, I’m not one of them, so yeah, love them.

davep1

Ncovidius said:

tt11 said:

So, what are your opinions - are we witnesses to the end of Campagnolo? Is it as far as it goes for Vicenza?
New 2022 Shimano offerings seem to be real killers & SRAM is also a super formidable player these days. What are your general thoughts on Campagnolo? Will they survive 2022 and open a new chapter in 2023 with some new stuff?

They’ve really only just got the 12 speed hydraulic SR road and 13 speed gravel Ekar sets established. There’s no way they are going anywhere soon. Personally I prefer my brake levers to not have to multi task, and for the set to be at least slightly reliable, so I will keep backing Campagnolo for the foreseeable future.

I loved my Campag stuff when I had it, it was a mix of Veloce and Chorus. The levers in particular were well shaped. However, the left side crank arm fell off one time, when I was almost home. It took me 2-3 weeks to get the parts and get it back on the road, and I always thought if that had been Shimano, it would have been 2-3 days max. From my experience, they are not immune to reliability problems.

My current bike has Ultegra, which is fantastic too. I was going to say it has been faultless, but the crank suffered the de-gluing/.oming apart issue that is quite common, and I had a bit of a struggle to get them to replace it as it was outside the 2 year warranty. They did come round to my way of thinking eventually.

Ncovidius

davep1 said:

Ncovidius said:

tt11 said:

So, what are your opinions - are we witnesses to the end of Campagnolo? Is it as far as it goes for Vicenza?
New 2022 Shimano offerings seem to be real killers & SRAM is also a super formidable player these days. What are your general thoughts on Campagnolo? Will they survive 2022 and open a new chapter in 2023 with some new stuff?

They’ve really only just got the 12 speed hydraulic SR road and 13 speed gravel Ekar sets established. There’s no way they are going anywhere soon. Personally I prefer my brake levers to not have to multi task, and for the set to be at least slightly reliable, so I will keep backing Campagnolo for the foreseeable future.

I loved my Campag stuff when I had it, it was a mix of Veloce and Chorus. The levers in particular were well shaped. However, the left side crank arm fell off one time, when I was almost home. It took me 2-3 weeks to get the parts and get it back on the road, and I always thought if that had been Shimano, it would have been 2-3 days max. From my experience, they are not immune to reliability problems.

My current bike has Ultegra, which is fantastic too. I was going to say it has been faultless, but the crank suffered the de-gluing/.oming apart issue that is quite common, and I had a bit of a struggle to get them to replace it as it was outside the 2 year warranty. They did come round to my way of thinking eventually.

I agree, no Groupset is an island, but I still prefer the exceptional feel and function of my Campag kit, to my Shimano kit. I’m no bike snob, I look for function over form, and value real world reliability. My experience is that Shimano is cheaper ( for the most part) but goes wrong more often. Shimano is easier to source ( especially at present ) as well. So I keep my winter ( relatively higher mileage/ effort ) hacks Shimano shod, and my best ( summer / good weather only ) bike, Campag shod.

mockenrue

slowmart said:

I doubt Campag shareholders are lying awake at night wondering what the competition are doing. They have a strong product line and a wealth of in house expertise for future development.

Agreed, but they are a privately held and family owned/run company and aren't beholden to shareholders.

gethinceri

Privately held doesn’t mean there are no shareholders.

thegreatdivide

It’s Shimano that’s totally [email protected] it.

Expect yet another groupset leap from Campagnolo in the new Year.

As for 1x systems, Campagnolo can’t make Ekar fast enough. They’re selling sh%t loads!

thiscocks

slowmart said:

Shimano reliable, well manufactured with strong product design behind them

Not in my experience. Got Ultegra 8000 and its been unreliable (needed new shifters and chain ring in under 2 years) , shifts worse than my early 2000s chorus campag and just feels cheap and censored also in comparison. The quicker I can get rid for some campag the better.

P.S. Why this thread? Are Campagnolo in financial trouble then?

thegreatdivide

No. Not in trouble at all. Just a thread started by a troll who’s never been seen since.

MattFalle

thiscocks said:

slowmart said:

Shimano reliable, well manufactured with strong product design behind them

Not in my experience. Got Ultegra 8000 and its been unreliable (needed new shifters and chain ring in under 2 years) , shifts worse than my early 2000s chorus campag and just feels cheap and censored also in comparison. The quicker I can get rid for some campag the better.

this

compared to the 9 speed Veloce I've wittered on about in another thread 8000 is plastic junk.

lets not compare 8000 to 9 or 10 speed Record for fear of me laughing so hard i fall off the couch.

Campag is just lovely - design, function, build quality, everything - compared to Shimano.

stebbo99

I have 10 speed Record on two bikes and it is the best products I have every used. My third steed has DA 11 speed. It is nice, don’t get me wrong, but the Campag looks feels and works just perfectly.
I have 2 spare square taper BB’s 3 or 4 bcd135 chainrings and 2 x10 spd Chorus cassettes as spares so should last me donkeys years.

DeVlaeminck

Unfortunately there's this myth that people buy campag because of the heritage/image/aesthetics. These are generally people who have never tried it because most of us buy ready built bikes these days and very few come Campag equipped. I've got Ultegra on my best bike for that very reason - it's good enough but it's not quite as good as the Chorus I had previously.

super_davo

DeVlaeminck said:

Unfortunately there's this myth that people buy campag because of the heritage/image/aesthetics. These are generally people who have never tried it because most of us buy ready built bikes these days and very few come Campag equipped. I've got Ultegra on my best bike for that very reason - it's good enough but it's not quite as good as the Chorus I had previously.

This is 100% the problem Campag have. As bikes get more integrated, complex and less user servicable its much less attractive to build your own. At club level 10 years ago there was a good core of the best riders that built their own bikes and swore by Campag. Now the same sort of riders just buy the bikes as a complete package from someone like Canyon or Giant, where you keep don't even need to change the wheels from stock. As those bikes rarely have Campag is only one or two of the older guys that cling on. So from having "heritage / image" its sort of become fogeyish. Ekar can help turn that round, as will the Pogacar / UAE pro race wins, but I can't help feeling what they really need is an affordable electronic groupset that gets specced on OEM bikes to get a new generation of riders using it.

PMark

For the people that say Campag is noticeably better than Shimano R8000, it would be help to specify what exactly is better. Because it isn't as though Campag haven't made substandard group sets before. For example, one of the previous 10 speed group sets had parts in the shifting mechanism for the front derailleur made out of plastic (these are generally made out of metal or carbon). So they would sometimes break when changing gear, instantly converting your bike into a 1x setup.

Unless things have changed now and Campag is just using more expensive materials than Shimano, I don't see how one high end mechanical setup can be better than another. Shimano have very good quality control/consistency and do over engineer their components, to the point where even the highest level products aren't always the lightest, but will generally last a lot longer.

masjer

For me, I like Campag because it allows me to change gear and stop. I also like Shimano for the same reason. The rest of the never-ending comparison is "blah,blah,blah".

MattFalle

PMark said:

For the people that say Campag is noticeably better than Shimano R8000, it would be help to specify what exactly is better. Because it isn't as though Campag haven't made substandard group sets before. For example, one of the previous 10 speed group sets had parts in the shifting mechanism for the front derailleur made out of plastic (these are generally made out of metal or carbon). So they would sometimes break when changing gear, instantly converting your bike into a 1x setup.

Unless things have changed now and Campag is just using more expensive materials than Shimano, I don't see how one high end mechanical setup can be better than another. Shimano have very good quality control/consistency and do over engineer their components, to the point where even the highest level products aren't always the lightest, but will generally last a lot longer.

what is better, offhand, because its late and I want to go to bed is:

design/functionality
shifter size - smaller
shifter shape
hood material
smoother gears going up
smoother gears going down
far better multiple shifting
lighter over all
complete aesthetics of the groupset
better brakes
doesn't feel that its made of plastic
more reliable - doesn't fall apart like 8000
serviceable
rebuildable
no pointless design features for no reason like the 8000 front mech
far nicer and more pleasurable to work on and use

the barrel adjuster on the rear mech by itself is far nicer designed, far better aesthetically and miles ahead in functionality than the whole of the 8000 groupset by itself.

DeVlaeminck

PMark said:

For the people that say Campag is noticeably better than Shimano R8000, it would be help to specify what exactly is better. Because it isn't as though Campag haven't made substandard group sets before. For example, one of the previous 10 speed group sets had parts in the shifting mechanism for the front derailleur made out of plastic (these are generally made out of metal or carbon). So they would sometimes break when changing gear, instantly converting your bike into a 1x setup.

Unless things have changed now and Campag is just using more expensive materials than Shimano, I don't see how one high end mechanical setup can be better than another. Shimano have very good quality control/consistency and do over engineer their components, to the point where even the highest level products aren't always the lightest, but will generally last a lot longer.

Yes they did make a Veloce group where the small lever was plastic and snapped.

But taking my Ultegra - it's noticeably noisier than the previous chorus - you may say that's down to set up but I've read a fair few comments in forums about the same thing.

I change gear cables more regularly than I would otherwise because they snap in the shifter - another known issue.

Apart from that I prefer the multishift on the chorus and the lever shape agrees with my hands more. It's small things I admit - I'm not trying to push Campag on anyone rather reacting to the sometimes expressed view that people choose Campag for sentimental reasons rather than practical ones.

MattFalle

MattFalle said:

PMark said:

For the people that say Campag is noticeably better than Shimano R8000, it would be help to specify what exactly is better. Because it isn't as though Campag haven't made substandard group sets before. For example, one of the previous 10 speed group sets had parts in the shifting mechanism for the front derailleur made out of plastic (these are generally made out of metal or carbon). So they would sometimes break when changing gear, instantly converting your bike into a 1x setup.

Unless things have changed now and Campag is just using more expensive materials than Shimano, I don't see how one high end mechanical setup can be better than another. Shimano have very good quality control/consistency and do over engineer their components, to the point where even the highest level products aren't always the lightest, but will generally last a lot longer.

what is better, offhand, because its late and I want to go to bed is:

design/functionality
shifter size - smaller
shifter shape
hood material
smoother gears going up
smoother gears going down
far better multiple shifting
lighter over all
complete aesthetics of the groupset
better brakes
doesn't feel that its made of plastic
more reliable - doesn't fall apart like 8000
serviceable
rebuildable
no pointless design features for no reason like the 8000 front mech
far nicer and more pleasurable to work on and use

the barrel adjuster on the rear mech by itself is far nicer designed, far better aesthetically and miles ahead in functionality than the whole of the 8000 groupset by itself.

Campag also lasts longer because its better engineered, serviceable and all parts are available as opposed to the disposable nature of Shimano.

rick_chasey

MattFalle said:

MattFalle said:

PMark said:

For the people that say Campag is noticeably better than Shimano R8000, it would be help to specify what exactly is better. Because it isn't as though Campag haven't made substandard group sets before. For example, one of the previous 10 speed group sets had parts in the shifting mechanism for the front derailleur made out of plastic (these are generally made out of metal or carbon). So they would sometimes break when changing gear, instantly converting your bike into a 1x setup.

Unless things have changed now and Campag is just using more expensive materials than Shimano, I don't see how one high end mechanical setup can be better than another. Shimano have very good quality control/consistency and do over engineer their components, to the point where even the highest level products aren't always the lightest, but will generally last a lot longer.

what is better, offhand, because its late and I want to go to bed is:

design/functionality
shifter size - smaller
shifter shape
hood material
smoother gears going up
smoother gears going down
far better multiple shifting
lighter over all
complete aesthetics of the groupset
better brakes
doesn't feel that its made of plastic
more reliable - doesn't fall apart like 8000
serviceable
rebuildable
no pointless design features for no reason like the 8000 front mech
far nicer and more pleasurable to work on and use

the barrel adjuster on the rear mech by itself is far nicer designed, far better aesthetically and miles ahead in functionality than the whole of the 8000 groupset by itself.

Campag also lasts longer because its better engineered, serviceable and all parts are available as opposed to the disposable nature of Shimano.

Tbf the parts are available as there are only a small amount of people who will pay those prices.

😜

Do the shifters still have that protruding thumb switch?

MattFalle

At club level 10 years ago there was a good core of the best riders that built their own bikes and swore by Campag.

but I can't help feeling what they really need is an affordable electronic groupset that gets specced on OEM bikes to get a new generation of riders using it.

Top para:
club bore. snoooooze. ignore.

Second para:
rubbish.

what everyone needs to realuse is that well set up mechanical is as goos as electronic and for 80% of riders a far far better option and stop deep throating the marketing hyperbole.