Olympics All Format Spoiler Thread

ddraver

kingstongraham said:

But what is someone more likely to take up? Rowing or basketball?

In fairness, there's some cross over there...

It would would suck if Ballers had to retrain as Jockeys for example...

TheBigBean

At every Olympics I wish I could play handball somewhere. Not been able to see any this time though.

DeVlaeminck

TheBigBean said:

At every Olympics I wish I could play handball somewhere. Not been able to see any this time though.

I think handball looks a good sport - I see there are handball clubs and leagues in the UK now but I guess it's hard to displace some of the established sports.

DeVlaeminck

Ben6899 said:

Speaking of the football... Christ, that penalty.

The award or the kick itself ? Both were pretty shocking.

ddraver

You're the right size for handball too, BB...

rick_chasey

The prospect of my skinny arms being able to do much in handball - haha

TheBigBean

ddraver said:

You're the right size for handball too, BB...

They have small speedy wingers as well.

TheBigBean

DeVlaeminck said:

TheBigBean said:

At every Olympics I wish I could play handball somewhere. Not been able to see any this time though.

I think handball looks a good sport - I see there are handball clubs and leagues in the UK now but I guess it's hard to displace some of the established sports.

Yes, but I have never been able to work out how to play at my local ones (I haven't tried particularly hard admittedly). Also, I assume it will be like a cricket club in a non-cricketing country - full of competent expat players.

Ben6899

DeVlaeminck said:

Ben6899 said:

Speaking of the football... Christ, that penalty.

The award or the kick itself ? Both were pretty shocking.

Both, but the kick itself. Made the ball look heavy and also sent a telegram as per its direction.

Very poor.

pblakeney

Lanterne_Rogue said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

I really wish the funding went on sports facilities rather than medals.

I assume it does to an extent. If the facilities aren't there for elite athletes then the medals won't come. A big chunk of the costs of the Newport velodrome came from the Lottery.

Medals are a big driver towards participation though. I was coaching at my cycling club in 2012 and the amount of new kids that turned up after the London Games was significant.

The thing is though, track cycling requires an expensive bit of kit (the track) and is likely to have limited use because of the number of people that can use it at the same time, so I'd rather some of that investment went in other sports and their facilities. Overall participation would be my criteria.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works. My understanding is the national sports bodies get lottery funding for use on grass roots sport including local facilities whilst UK Sport get funding towards elite programmes.

Yes, so I suppose my point is that the UK sport money should go to the sports bodies. I'd much rather more kids got to go [paddle boarding on the canal] than some rowers won medals. The rowers aren't state paid in most countries.

I suspect most athletes in the rowing competition are professional. Most countries view sport as a form of soft power, and "bread and circuses" applies as much now as it ever did. In terms of return on investment it's probably quite reasonable value for a government - and most of it washes back as tax eventually anyway, as long as your athletes aren't based permanently abroad.

FWIW with the grass roots funding that sporting bodies are held to, I'd make it a condition that they only fund local clubs if they partner up with their local state school, to give children proper access to a range of sports. It'd open up a lot more to them than whatever fits onto the part of the playing field that wasn't sold off in the early nineties.

When I was competing back in the 70s once you got to a recognised level you got a sport pass which gave free entry to any local authority sports facilities.

tailwindhome

Pross said:

Some dirty fighting in the boxing today. The Uzbek? fighting one of the British men was using forearms, elbows and head (that caused a cut eye) whilst the Yank fighting Dubois landed two head shots whilst holding her and after being told to release earning a point deduction.

Not a fan of the blonde haired British boxer. He's a bit cocky even when he scraped through his quarter final.

Watched the first fight you mention. I don't know if it was the nature of that particular fight, but the absence of crowd noise means you hear more of the actual boxers and get a much greater sense of the power and aggression

DeVlaeminck

tailwindhome said:

Pross said:

Some dirty fighting in the boxing today. The Uzbek? fighting one of the British men was using forearms, elbows and head (that caused a cut eye) whilst the Yank fighting Dubois landed two head shots whilst holding her and after being told to release earning a point deduction.

Not a fan of the blonde haired British boxer. He's a bit cocky even when he scraped through his quarter final.

Watched the first fight you mention. I don't know if it was the nature of that particular fight, but the absence of crowd noise means you hear more of the actual boxers and get a much greater sense of the power and aggression

Who won the Dubois fight?

Pross

DeVlaeminck said:

tailwindhome said:

Pross said:

Some dirty fighting in the boxing today. The Uzbek? fighting one of the British men was using forearms, elbows and head (that caused a cut eye) whilst the Yank fighting Dubois landed two head shots whilst holding her and after being told to release earning a point deduction.

Not a fan of the blonde haired British boxer. He's a bit cocky even when he scraped through his quarter final.

Watched the first fight you mention. I don't know if it was the nature of that particular fight, but the absence of crowd noise means you hear more of the actual boxers and get a much greater sense of the power and aggression

Who won the Dubois fight?

Dubois on a split decision.

ddraver

Did anyone see Jolanda this morning..?




(...or Tom, or Evie?)

above_the_cows

Pross said:

Just looked at the cost of joining my local rowing club. It's £325 per year for full use of facilities and £132 for juniors which seems fairly good. They do a 4 week 'learn to row' course for adults at £95.

If I was 20 years younger I might have given it a go.

Again, it's one of those where the assumption that only a particular type of person participates ends up becoming self-fulfilling.

Access is not just about cost but also about fostering spaces where people feel welcome. Just ask lots of women why they don't cycle seriosuly for example. It's not just about cost, it's about not being made to feel like a weirdo outsider and many sports, including cycling have a LONG way to go in that.

There is NO way I would ride with most clubs where I live for example. Too much d1ck swinging.

First.Aspect

Pross said:

Just looked at the cost of joining my local rowing club. It's £325 per year for full use of facilities and £132 for juniors which seems fairly good. They do a 4 week 'learn to row' course for adults at £95.

If I was 20 years younger I might have given it a go.

Again, it's one of those where the assumption that only a particular type of person participates ends up becoming self-fulfilling.

Sort of. There are some great clubs that are very cheap and are a broad church. But you are preposterously unlikely to get to elite level that way, even if you start young. Coaching is likely poor, club boats battered and ill fitting and athletes mismatched. To get anywhere you need decent crewmates of roughly the same age. In a given local club, you will be lucky to find one.

To progress you either need a boat of your own... £10k... or travel to Marlow or Henley basically daily.

The route to elite rowing is through schools, meaning private schools, and universities, which is at least a bit more inclusive.

TheBigBean

I don't get the appeal of rowing at all, but each to their own.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

Sort of. There are some great clubs that are very cheap and are a broad church. But you are preposterously unlikely to get to elite level that way, even if you start young.

This is the medal obsession again. Why worry about being elite and not just enjoy participating? Sure do the best you can, but I don't think doing/playing a sport purely out of a desire to be the best is very healthy. I think a lot of pros of many sports might be victims of child abuse essentially.

TheBigBean

above_the_cows said:

Pross said:

Just looked at the cost of joining my local rowing club. It's £325 per year for full use of facilities and £132 for juniors which seems fairly good. They do a 4 week 'learn to row' course for adults at £95.

If I was 20 years younger I might have given it a go.

Again, it's one of those where the assumption that only a particular type of person participates ends up becoming self-fulfilling.

Access is not just about cost but also about fostering spaces where people feel welcome. Just ask lots of women why they don't cycle seriosuly for example. It's not just about cost, it's about not being made to feel like a weirdo outsider and many sports, including cycling have a LONG way to go in that.

There is NO way I would ride with most clubs where I live for example. Too much d1ck swinging.

I see the Black Cyclist Network doing group rides - quite a few women and people of all shapes and sizes. Always struck me as a bit odd, especially in central London, but perhaps bike clubs aren't that welcoming.

elbowloh

TheBigBean said:

above_the_cows said:

Pross said:

Just looked at the cost of joining my local rowing club. It's £325 per year for full use of facilities and £132 for juniors which seems fairly good. They do a 4 week 'learn to row' course for adults at £95.

If I was 20 years younger I might have given it a go.

Again, it's one of those where the assumption that only a particular type of person participates ends up becoming self-fulfilling.

Access is not just about cost but also about fostering spaces where people feel welcome. Just ask lots of women why they don't cycle seriosuly for example. It's not just about cost, it's about not being made to feel like a weirdo outsider and many sports, including cycling have a LONG way to go in that.

There is NO way I would ride with most clubs where I live for example. Too much d1ck swinging.

I see the Black Cyclist Network doing group rides - quite a few women and people of all shapes and sizes. Always struck me as a bit odd, especially in central London, but perhaps bike clubs aren't that welcoming.

There are a few clubs that are just full and not open to any new members full stop e.g. Kingston Wheelers were closed to new members for a long time

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

Sort of. There are some great clubs that are very cheap and are a broad church. But you are preposterously unlikely to get to elite level that way, even if you start young.

This is the medal obsession again. Why worry about being elite and not just enjoy participating? Sure do the best you can, but I don't think doing/playing a sport purely out of a desire to be the best is very healthy. I think a lot of pros of many sports might be victims of child abuse essentially.

Gymnastics yes makes me quite uncomfortable.

As for the rest, you do realise this is an Olympics thread BB? Not a thread about increasingamateur tiddlywinks participation?

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

Sort of. There are some great clubs that are very cheap and are a broad church. But you are preposterously unlikely to get to elite level that way, even if you start young.

This is the medal obsession again. Why worry about being elite and not just enjoy participating? Sure do the best you can, but I don't think doing/playing a sport purely out of a desire to be the best is very healthy. I think a lot of pros of many sports might be victims of child abuse essentially.

The first step is to learn the difference between participating in an activity and competing. Very different things.

ddraver

First.Aspect said:

As for the rest, you do realise this is an Olympics thread BB? Not a thread about increasing amateur tiddlywinks participation?

Yes, but inevitably the Olympic Thread becomes about Olympic funding. Then a discussion on how effective it is to spend money on one olympian rather than facilities for 100 'normos'. Then we get onto how France doesn't win very many medals but we call go on cycling holidays there and marvel about how good the facilities are. This then develops into a conversation about how many km of cycling path we get per Laura Trott. The answer is not that many so isn't it better to inspire people by having a single Trott? Well, actually the studies show that Olympic success has a marginal impact on uptake of sports and that the Olympics are inevitably a financial disaster for the host nation (accompanied by photos of abandoned stadia in Greece/Brazil. Then we move onto how great it felt to be British during London 2012 and, isn't that a price worth paying anyway? Far better that than to give it to bankers or poor people (delete as appropriate). Then we move onto the fact that most of the Team GB Talent was spotted by a concerted effort to go out and test school children to see what they might be good at. That's how we found Lizzie Deignan and Helen Glover, you know. But then we look at today's events where people nerdy enough to cycle, even nerdier enough to post on an internet forum about cycling, nerdier still to post on a cycling forum about pro cycling, didn't see a gold and a silver medal coming in the BMX today so talent program -Schmalent program...

Then the Vuelta Stage Thread starts or Someone from TeamGB is revealed to have done something dodgy and the thread disappears off the front page and dies...

Pross

above_the_cows said:

Pross said:

Just looked at the cost of joining my local rowing club. It's £325 per year for full use of facilities and £132 for juniors which seems fairly good. They do a 4 week 'learn to row' course for adults at £95.

If I was 20 years younger I might have given it a go.

Again, it's one of those where the assumption that only a particular type of person participates ends up becoming self-fulfilling.

Access is not just about cost but also about fostering spaces where people feel welcome. Just ask lots of women why they don't cycle seriosuly for example. It's not just about cost, it's about not being made to feel like a weirdo outsider and many sports, including cycling have a LONG way to go in that.

There is NO way I would ride with most clubs where I live for example. Too much d1ck swinging.

My old club went out of its way to attract women. Some local person put money into the club specifically for that purpose and it resulted in us having a club team competing at the top of women's domestic cycling within a year or two (several individual riders in the national top 10 rankings). Our kids training sessions used to get 30 plus turn up every week and we had a few club bikes we loaned out for a nominal deposit (unfortunately quite a few people neglected basic maintenance and returned them in bad condition).

I do get your point though, I took a 12 year break from that club and when I went back it had changed beyond recognition. Club runs were no longer social rides at the pace of the slowest, regrouping at the top of climbs and having a cafe stop halfway. I paced one guy 30 miles home one week when no:one else had time to wait. The next week he obviously felt better and decided to drive on the front when I was struggling to hold on the back leaving me to ride the final 10 miles solo.

davidof

davieb78 said:

ddraver said:

Rowers v Cyclists

https://twitter.com/AvVleuten/status/1420785744986132482?s=19

(even there...)

This is another good one...

Jeez, they've overdone the HGH a bit

Lanterne_Rogue

TheBigBean said:

I don't get the appeal of rowing at all, but each to their own.

Imagine going for a ride on a really wet road, there's no trucks threatening to run you over, and occasionally you get to see a kingfisher.

Or a dead sheep. I preferred the kingfishers.


Pross - if you fancy giving it a go ask if they've got any veteran crews. You might find you get press-ganged before you know what's happening. Vets crews are (or at least were) much more fun - the talent level is all over the place and if you get knocked out early it just means more time hanging around by a river bank on a summer afternoon with easy access to decent drinks. I fell into coxing as I was shanghaied into taking out a vet crew as a favour to someone, spent the summer getting incredibly drunk across the midlands with them, then somehow kicked them into enough shape to finally win something. And if they hadn't won the whole damn regatta I'd have been incredibly cross with them because winning races was cutting into our drinking time...

I do agree though that generally rowing clubs aren't the sort of place somebody curious about rowing would go to unless they were already the right sort of chap(ette), except at uni where anybody with vaguely the right shape would be more or less implored to give it a go. That needs sorting (and cycling clubs aren't much better - it's a very different tone with the Peckham BMX scene, isn't it?)

rick_chasey

Yes, I definitely got into rowing for the social side and the rowing was an excuse to get together.

"pub boats" or "beer boats" are a fairly standard fare in rowing clubs. Do a bit of rowing, all have a pint afterwards.

First.Aspect

Lanterne_Rogue said:

TheBigBean said:

I don't get the appeal of rowing at all, but each to their own.

Imagine going for a ride on a really wet road, there's no trucks threatening to run you over, and occasionally you get to see a kingfisher.

Or a dead sheep. I preferred the kingfishers.


Pross - if you fancy giving it a go ask if they've got any veteran crews. You might find you get press-ganged before you know what's happening. Vets crews are (or at least were) much more fun - the talent level is all over the place and if you get knocked out early it just means more time hanging around by a river bank on a summer afternoon with easy access to decent drinks. I fell into coxing as I was shanghaied into taking out a vet crew as a favour to someone, spent the summer getting incredibly drunk across the midlands with them, then somehow kicked them into enough shape to finally win something. And if they hadn't won the whole damn regatta I'd have been incredibly cross with them because winning races was cutting into our drinking time...

I do agree though that generally rowing clubs aren't the sort of place somebody curious about rowing would go to unless they were already the right sort of chap(ette), except at uni where anybody with vaguely the right shape would be more or less implored to give it a go. That needs sorting (and cycling clubs aren't much better - it's a very different tone with the Peckham BMX scene, isn't it?)

Rowing in a bad crew boat is hell. You realise this after a fluke 10 good strokes, or a season in a good one.

In a good crew boat, or in a single, the appeal or rowing is the sound, the place and, if you ever skimmed stones as a kid, being the stone.

DeVlaeminck

TheBigBean said:

above_the_cows said:

Pross said:

Just looked at the cost of joining my local rowing club. It's £325 per year for full use of facilities and £132 for juniors which seems fairly good. They do a 4 week 'learn to row' course for adults at £95.

If I was 20 years younger I might have given it a go.

Again, it's one of those where the assumption that only a particular type of person participates ends up becoming self-fulfilling.

Access is not just about cost but also about fostering spaces where people feel welcome. Just ask lots of women why they don't cycle seriosuly for example. It's not just about cost, it's about not being made to feel like a weirdo outsider and many sports, including cycling have a LONG way to go in that.

There is NO way I would ride with most clubs where I live for example. Too much d1ck swinging.

I see the Black Cyclist Network doing group rides - quite a few women and people of all shapes and sizes. Always struck me as a bit odd, especially in central London, but perhaps bike clubs aren't that welcoming.

I think quite a lot has changed - most active clubs round here have quite a few women, women only rides etc.

tailwindhome

I'd say a competitor who rocks up self funded and takes gold should qualify for some sort of retrospective grant