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Should Ineos swallow their pride and disband?

davidofdavidof Posts: 2,509
edited 21 July in Pro race
Inspired by a Philippa York article in cycling news about team Ineos...

"Arriving at the start in Brittany with four protected riders, the tactics seemed fluid at best and confusing at worst... Thomas was damaged, Porte had settled into the support role he had returned to do, Geoghegan Hart was looking more than a little shell-shocked with the level that exists at the Tour. Carapaz was left to take on Pogačar but was ultimately left behind as the Ecuadorian was out-climbed, out-sprinted, and comprehensively out-ridden against the clock.

That they never looked like winning a single stage is a damning conclusion that Jim Ratcliffe, the team owner, will have noted. He’ll be asking where his money went and wondering about the loss of momentum from a team known for planning ahead."


Braislford with serious health problems
Nicolas Portal r.i.p.
Bernal with a dodgy back.
Geraint unable to stay on his bike.
Carapaz out of puff
Porte past it.

After a "disastrous" tour should the team disband?
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  • WheelspinnerWheelspinner Posts: 5,287
    You serious, or trolling?

    Have a look at their results this season. Loads of teams would *love* to have had that kind of success.

    Their Tour was wrecked by a stupid woman with a sign. That's it.
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 55,885 Lives Here
    edited 21 July
    Won the Giro, Podium in the Tour, - not that bad.

    I think they'll have to adjust to a world where they don't have the best GC rider in the world (nor do they have the best classics rider).
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,252
    They've still won five WT races this season so far. Which is one more than FdJ have (in their entire 25 season history)
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  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 8,544
    Disband or sign Pogačar? 😉
  • r0bhr0bh Posts: 1,546
    I get the feeling that York, like David Millar, is not always entirely objective when it comes to Ineos
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 16,668
    What they need is a top class sprinter.
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 3,999
    PY spouts some sh!te!!
    Carapaz was right in the mix for the win on the 2 Pyrenean MTFs, but Pog is just stronger than every other rider in the peloton at the moment.
    The early crashes hit Ineos hard, and impacted the race overall, though Pog would still have won the GC.
    Sure it wasn't the Tour that Ineos would have hoped for, but they've had a very good season otherwise so far.
    So yes, let's hope Mr Ratcliff pulls the plug as that would be really good for pro cycling............................
















    .....not.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 5,095
    Its well known on here that I am far, far, far from an Ineos fan for many reasons, but hey, you can't knock their record over the past fews years in both their guises.

    i think they'll be alright.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 5,095
    Its well known on here that I am far, far, far from an Ineos fan for many reasons, but hey, you can't knock their record over the past fews years in both their guises.

    i think they'll be alright.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoatN0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 4,603
    They've not moved with the times, they need an up and coming sprinter from IOM.
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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,252
    edited 21 July

    PY spouts some sh!te!!


    Also from that article

    " I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "

    I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome. There was also Froome/Landa in 2017 and Wiggins/Froome in 2012.
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  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,109
    It’s a money train suckling on the censored of the richest individual in the UK

    ROI? does Ratcliffe care ?

    Their record speaks for itself, so they’re not enjoying the dominance they had on the Tour, and that’s a bad thing for the sport?

    Equally the publicity and profile for the team is still the same but for different reasons

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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,146
    RichN95. said:

    PY spouts some sh!te!!


    Also from that article

    " I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "

    I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome. There was also Froome/Landa in 2017 and Wiggins/Froome in 2012.
    You could say the year Quintana and Valverde finished on the podium was also a decent result for them.

  • neonriverneonriver Posts: 142
    RichN95. said:

    PY spouts some sh!te!!


    Also from that article

    " I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "

    I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome.
    Before that Contador and Armstrong even if it was only in Armstrong’s head that they were multiple leaders and then Sastre and schlecks, Riis and Ultich etc etc
  • neonriverneonriver Posts: 142
    edited 21 July
    slowmart said:

    It’s a money train suckling on the censored of the richest individual in the UK

    ROI? does Ratcliffe care ?

    Their record speaks for itself, so they’re not enjoying the dominance they had on the Tour, and that’s a bad thing for the sport?

    Equally the publicity and profile for the team is still the same but for different reasons

    Pretty sure Ineos will be happy with the tax write off investing in all their different teams let’s them have
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 9,852
    RichN95. said:

    PY spouts some sh!te!!


    Also from that article

    " I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "

    I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome. There was also Froome/Landa in 2017 and Wiggins/Froome in 2012.
    Totally agree ...multiple leaders works .... But it's best with just two .
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,609
    Cycling news really is becoming the worst sort of clickbait. Shame...

    If they stopped now, Ineos would have had the sort of season most teams would give their right legs for so...no.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 9,852
    neonriver said:

    RichN95. said:

    PY spouts some sh!te!!


    Also from that article

    " I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "

    I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome.
    Before that Contador and Armstrong even if it was only in Armstrong’s head that they were multiple leaders and then Sastre and schlecks, Riis and Ultich etc etc
    Again agree
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 10,995
    Whenever multiple leaders have produced the goods we've tended to end up saying "ah, see, rider x was the real leader all along".

    Journos: "who's the real leader.?"
    Team: "the road will decide"
    The Road: *decides on rider x*
    Journos: "rider x was the real leader in the team's bluff"
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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,252
    ddraver said:

    Cycling news really is becoming the worst sort of clickbait. Shame...
    .


    You say that as though it was once something else
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,234
    The only bit that baffles me is they had multiple protected riders, but protected all of them in the same tiny bit of road so that when the protected rider who inevitably falls off in a freak accident fell off in a freak accident, the rest of them immediately rode over him and ended up smeared across a selection of Brittany's finest tarmac too.

    I can't help but think they need to revisit that strategy.
  • andyracandyrac Posts: 575
    They've finished third in the Tour, won the Giro, won a few week long stage races, a few one day semi classics, hell, even a MTB World Cup.

    If that is viewed as failure, then that says more about the state of the sport than Ineos. Most other teams would kill their grandma for those results.


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  • jimmythecuckoojimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,521
    Best thread ever.

    Maybe not disband but they need some new and fresh ideas.

    Some innovation from the DS team as helping Pog get back on to JV after Ventoux made me so angry.

    If their objective was to get Carapaz on the podium, then job done. But if it was to be disruptive and bring chaos to the race then it was a total fail.

    Don't spend the last week riding for Pogacar though, not cool.
  • ProssPross Posts: 28,205

    You serious, or trolling?

    Have a look at their results this season. Loads of teams would *love* to have had that kind of success.

    Their Tour was wrecked by a stupid woman with a sign. That's it.

    Point of order - Ineos survived that incident, Geraint's crash was a couple of stages later in a weird incident that never seems to have been fully explained possibly involving a speed bump but other than that I agree with the sentiment.

    No-one was competing with Pog this year, it shows the level of success that Ineos / Sky have had over the last decade that people are heralding a Tour podium as some kind of failure. If Radcliffe is wondering where his money has gone I dread to think what the people putting money into any team other than UAE, JV, DQS, Alpecin and Bahrain (maybe Lotto) are wondering.

    York has become a bit of a parody of the ex-sportsman making a living off past glories. It's going to be fun treating this thread like the Cav one when Tom P dishes Pog up with some of his own medicine next year :wink:
  • ProssPross Posts: 28,205

    Best thread ever.

    Maybe not disband but they need some new and fresh ideas.

    Some innovation from the DS team as helping Pog get back on to JV after Ventoux made me so angry.

    If their objective was to get Carapaz on the podium, then job done. But if it was to be disruptive and bring chaos to the race then it was a total fail.

    Don't spend the last week riding for Pogacar though, not cool.

    Meh, Carapaz isn't even their main GC rider Bernal is and won the Giro. The reason that went in mob handed was that it was clear that Pog was going to be better than anyone other than Roglic with Bernal having done the Giro and still carrying injury doubts (I may be in the monority but I think Roglic would have been closer to Carapaz on GC than Pog as well). They've got a decent line up of young riders that I suspect we'll be seeing breaking through in the senior stage races next season (Danny Martinez and Hayter in addition to Pidcock and Bernal plus possibly Dunbar).

    I suspect Thomas will not ride another GT as leader / joint leader (he may not even be with the team as he's out of contract), and that Porte will not be there next season. A team of the following (max age 26) doesn't look too shabby - a bit light on flatland riders but Ganna is teh equivalent of 2 or 3 whilst Pidcock and Hayter are more than comfortable on pretty much any terrain.

    Bernal
    Pidcock
    Hayter
    Martinez
    TGH
    Ganna
    Dunbar
    De Plus
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,475
    A clear out of old hands and an honest evaluation of younger talent required

    Who's the future and who's the past.
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  • redvisionredvision Posts: 2,715
    Like every sport, success goes in cycles. They have enjoyed so many victories that complacency may have crept in the last couple of years. That said, they have still achieved some great results and people seem to be forgetting the form Bernal had in the giro. Had he ridden he may not have been able to beat pogacar in the tour but I think he would at least have challenged him.

    I have no doubt they will recover and mount a serious challenge for the tour again next year.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,981
    neonriver said:

    slowmart said:

    It’s a money train suckling on the censored of the richest individual in the UK

    ROI? does Ratcliffe care ?

    Their record speaks for itself, so they’re not enjoying the dominance they had on the Tour, and that’s a bad thing for the sport?

    Equally the publicity and profile for the team is still the same but for different reasons

    Pretty sure Ineos will be happy with the tax write off investing in all their different teams let’s them have
    Do you even know what that means? Spending £40m and saving £12m in tax is still spending £28m.
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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,146
    Yes, but so this forum can discuss other teams.
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,448
    Their train hasn't been the most dominant for the last three Tours. Van Baarle was saying how happy he was with his ride on the Tourmalet to finish with "only" 40 left in the group.

    Castroviejo has been superb but most of the time Carapaz was left to attack on his own with no support.

    Last year was obviously a right off, and the year before none of their super domestiques was able to out ride Alaphalippe, which is surely not what they'd want.
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