Should Ineos swallow their pride and disband?
Inspired by a Philippa York article in cycling news about team Ineos...
"Arriving at the start in Brittany with four protected riders, the tactics seemed fluid at best and confusing at worst... Thomas was damaged, Porte had settled into the support role he had returned to do, Geoghegan Hart was looking more than a little shell-shocked with the level that exists at the Tour. Carapaz was left to take on Pogačar but was ultimately left behind as the Ecuadorian was out-climbed, out-sprinted, and comprehensively out-ridden against the clock.
That they never looked like winning a single stage is a damning conclusion that Jim Ratcliffe, the team owner, will have noted. He’ll be asking where his money went and wondering about the loss of momentum from a team known for planning ahead."
Braislford with serious health problems
Nicolas Portal r.i.p.
Bernal with a dodgy back.
Geraint unable to stay on his bike.
Carapaz out of puff
Porte past it.
After a "disastrous" tour should the team disband?
"Arriving at the start in Brittany with four protected riders, the tactics seemed fluid at best and confusing at worst... Thomas was damaged, Porte had settled into the support role he had returned to do, Geoghegan Hart was looking more than a little shell-shocked with the level that exists at the Tour. Carapaz was left to take on Pogačar but was ultimately left behind as the Ecuadorian was out-climbed, out-sprinted, and comprehensively out-ridden against the clock.
That they never looked like winning a single stage is a damning conclusion that Jim Ratcliffe, the team owner, will have noted. He’ll be asking where his money went and wondering about the loss of momentum from a team known for planning ahead."
Braislford with serious health problems
Nicolas Portal r.i.p.
Bernal with a dodgy back.
Geraint unable to stay on his bike.
Carapaz out of puff
Porte past it.
After a "disastrous" tour should the team disband?
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You serious, or trolling?
Have a look at their results this season. Loads of teams would *love* to have had that kind of success.
Their Tour was wrecked by a stupid woman with a sign. That's it.
Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
Won the Giro, Podium in the Tour, - not that bad.
I think they'll have to adjust to a world where they don't have the best GC rider in the world (nor do they have the best classics rider).0 -
Disband or sign Pogačar? 😉0
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I get the feeling that York, like David Millar, is not always entirely objective when it comes to Ineos0
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What they need is a top class sprinter.0
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PY spouts some sh!te!!
Carapaz was right in the mix for the win on the 2 Pyrenean MTFs, but Pog is just stronger than every other rider in the peloton at the moment.
The early crashes hit Ineos hard, and impacted the race overall, though Pog would still have won the GC.
Sure it wasn't the Tour that Ineos would have hoped for, but they've had a very good season otherwise so far.
So yes, let's hope Mr Ratcliff pulls the plug as that would be really good for pro cycling............................
.....not.0 -
Its well known on here that I am far, far, far from an Ineos fan for many reasons, but hey, you can't knock their record over the past fews years in both their guises.
i think they'll be alright..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Its well known on here that I am far, far, far from an Ineos fan for many reasons, but hey, you can't knock their record over the past fews years in both their guises.
i think they'll be alright..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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They've not moved with the times, they need an up and coming sprinter from IOM.================
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Dorset_Boy said:
PY spouts some sh!te!!
Also from that article
" I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "
I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome. There was also Froome/Landa in 2017 and Wiggins/Froome in 2012.
Twitter: @RichN951 -
It’s a money train suckling on the tit of the richest individual in the UK
ROI? does Ratcliffe care ?
Their record speaks for itself, so they’re not enjoying the dominance they had on the Tour, and that’s a bad thing for the sport?
Equally the publicity and profile for the team is still the same but for different reasons
“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
You could say the year Quintana and Valverde finished on the podium was also a decent result for them.RichN95. said:Dorset_Boy said:PY spouts some sh!te!!
Also from that article
" I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "
I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome. There was also Froome/Landa in 2017 and Wiggins/Froome in 2012.
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Before that Contador and Armstrong even if it was only in Armstrong’s head that they were multiple leaders and then Sastre and schlecks, Riis and Ultich etc etcRichN95. said:Dorset_Boy said:PY spouts some sh!te!!
Also from that article
" I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "
I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome.
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Pretty sure Ineos will be happy with the tax write off investing in all their different teams let’s them haveslowmart said:It’s a money train suckling on the censored of the richest individual in the UK
ROI? does Ratcliffe care ?
Their record speaks for itself, so they’re not enjoying the dominance they had on the Tour, and that’s a bad thing for the sport?
Equally the publicity and profile for the team is still the same but for different reasons0 -
Totally agree ...multiple leaders works .... But it's best with just two .RichN95. said:Dorset_Boy said:PY spouts some sh!te!!
Also from that article
" I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "
I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome. There was also Froome/Landa in 2017 and Wiggins/Froome in 2012."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Again agreeneonriver said:
Before that Contador and Armstrong even if it was only in Armstrong’s head that they were multiple leaders and then Sastre and schlecks, Riis and Ultich etc etcRichN95. said:Dorset_Boy said:PY spouts some sh!te!!
Also from that article
" I’ve been wondering when was the last time the multiple-leaders scenario produced the goods and, from memory, it might just have been the 1985 Tour with Bernard Hinault and Greg Lemond. "
I'm going to say 2019 with Thomas and Bernal. And before that 2018 with Thomas and Froome."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Whenever multiple leaders have produced the goods we've tended to end up saying "ah, see, rider x was the real leader all along".
Journos: "who's the real leader.?"
Team: "the road will decide"
The Road: *decides on rider x*
Journos: "rider x was the real leader in the team's bluff"Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
The only bit that baffles me is they had multiple protected riders, but protected all of them in the same tiny bit of road so that when the protected rider who inevitably falls off in a freak accident fell off in a freak accident, the rest of them immediately rode over him and ended up smeared across a selection of Brittany's finest tarmac too.
I can't help but think they need to revisit that strategy.0 -
They've finished third in the Tour, won the Giro, won a few week long stage races, a few one day semi classics, hell, even a MTB World Cup.
If that is viewed as failure, then that says more about the state of the sport than Ineos. Most other teams would kill their grandma for those results.All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."0 -
Best thread ever.
Maybe not disband but they need some new and fresh ideas.
Some innovation from the DS team as helping Pog get back on to JV after Ventoux made me so angry.
If their objective was to get Carapaz on the podium, then job done. But if it was to be disruptive and bring chaos to the race then it was a total fail.
Don't spend the last week riding for Pogacar though, not cool.0 -
Point of order - Ineos survived that incident, Geraint's crash was a couple of stages later in a weird incident that never seems to have been fully explained possibly involving a speed bump but other than that I agree with the sentiment.Wheelspinner said:You serious, or trolling?
Have a look at their results this season. Loads of teams would *love* to have had that kind of success.
Their Tour was wrecked by a stupid woman with a sign. That's it.
No-one was competing with Pog this year, it shows the level of success that Ineos / Sky have had over the last decade that people are heralding a Tour podium as some kind of failure. If Radcliffe is wondering where his money has gone I dread to think what the people putting money into any team other than UAE, JV, DQS, Alpecin and Bahrain (maybe Lotto) are wondering.
York has become a bit of a parody of the ex-sportsman making a living off past glories. It's going to be fun treating this thread like the Cav one when Tom P dishes Pog up with some of his own medicine next year
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Meh, Carapaz isn't even their main GC rider Bernal is and won the Giro. The reason that went in mob handed was that it was clear that Pog was going to be better than anyone other than Roglic with Bernal having done the Giro and still carrying injury doubts (I may be in the monority but I think Roglic would have been closer to Carapaz on GC than Pog as well). They've got a decent line up of young riders that I suspect we'll be seeing breaking through in the senior stage races next season (Danny Martinez and Hayter in addition to Pidcock and Bernal plus possibly Dunbar).jimmythecuckoo said:Best thread ever.
Maybe not disband but they need some new and fresh ideas.
Some innovation from the DS team as helping Pog get back on to JV after Ventoux made me so angry.
If their objective was to get Carapaz on the podium, then job done. But if it was to be disruptive and bring chaos to the race then it was a total fail.
Don't spend the last week riding for Pogacar though, not cool.
I suspect Thomas will not ride another GT as leader / joint leader (he may not even be with the team as he's out of contract), and that Porte will not be there next season. A team of the following (max age 26) doesn't look too shabby - a bit light on flatland riders but Ganna is teh equivalent of 2 or 3 whilst Pidcock and Hayter are more than comfortable on pretty much any terrain.
Bernal
Pidcock
Hayter
Martinez
TGH
Ganna
Dunbar
De Plus0 -
A clear out of old hands and an honest evaluation of younger talent required
Who's the future and who's the past.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Like every sport, success goes in cycles. They have enjoyed so many victories that complacency may have crept in the last couple of years. That said, they have still achieved some great results and people seem to be forgetting the form Bernal had in the giro. Had he ridden he may not have been able to beat pogacar in the tour but I think he would at least have challenged him.
I have no doubt they will recover and mount a serious challenge for the tour again next year.0 -
Do you even know what that means? Spending £40m and saving £12m in tax is still spending £28m.neonriver said:
Pretty sure Ineos will be happy with the tax write off investing in all their different teams let’s them haveslowmart said:It’s a money train suckling on the censored of the richest individual in the UK
ROI? does Ratcliffe care ?
Their record speaks for itself, so they’re not enjoying the dominance they had on the Tour, and that’s a bad thing for the sport?
Equally the publicity and profile for the team is still the same but for different reasons"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
Yes, but so this forum can discuss other teams.0
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Their train hasn't been the most dominant for the last three Tours. Van Baarle was saying how happy he was with his ride on the Tourmalet to finish with "only" 40 left in the group.
Castroviejo has been superb but most of the time Carapaz was left to attack on his own with no support.
Last year was obviously a right off, and the year before none of their super domestiques was able to out ride Alaphalippe, which is surely not what they'd want.0
