TDF 2021:- Stage 15, Céret > Andorre-La-Vieille 191.3km **Spoilers**

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Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    RichN95. said:

    EBH finished 25 minutes outside the time cut.

    My guess is he's not going to be the new Merckx
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,613
    Pross said:

    RichN95. said:

    EBH finished 25 minutes outside the time cut.

    My guess is he's not going to be the new Merckx
    Axel?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    Poor Eddie 😥,

    I feel like cycling did him dirty somehow
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    I blame Sky (or Wiggle).
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    The question that journalists need to be asking on the rest day is why Movistar are only 8th on the team competition, nearly an hour down. Bahrain lead EF by 11 minutes
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,339
    Pross said:

    So Castro and van Baarle dropped at the same time or called back as a link for a Carapaz attack?

    If the latter they may as well have emailed UAE advanced notice

    Well a telegraphed attack does take some time...
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    So Castro and van Baarle dropped at the same time or called back as a link for a Carapaz attack?

    If the latter they may as well have emailed UAE advanced notice

    Well a telegraphed attack does take some time...
    I think Thomas was also dropped before he managed to take over from Kwia at the front.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,805
    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    Ineos' tactics are basically a cargo cult at this point. They're doing all the work for a leader in the hope one turns up.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    In the words of Sean, "It's all for nothing if you've not got the good legs.".
    With the exception of Pogacar they are all much of a muchness in the mountains.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,311

    Ineos' tactics are basically a cargo cult at this point. They're doing all the work for a leader in the hope one turns up.

    Ouch.
    There's really nothing to separate Carapaz and Uran in the mountains at the moment. It's a little ironic that the much vaunted (Vaughtered?) chaos-riders ethos of EF ends in utterly defensive gc riding when the sheet gets real
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    phreak said:

    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    So Castro and van Baarle dropped at the same time or called back as a link for a Carapaz attack?

    If the latter they may as well have emailed UAE advanced notice

    Well a telegraphed attack does take some time...
    I think Thomas was also dropped before he managed to take over from Kwia at the front.
    I thought Thomas did the final stint on the front of the big climb and stayed in on the descent?
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    So Castro and van Baarle dropped at the same time or called back as a link for a Carapaz attack?

    If the latter they may as well have emailed UAE advanced notice

    Well a telegraphed attack does take some time...
    I think Thomas was also dropped before he managed to take over from Kwia at the front.
    I thought Thomas did the final stint on the front of the big climb and stayed in on the descent?
    That's what I thought too.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,194
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    So Castro and van Baarle dropped at the same time or called back as a link for a Carapaz attack?

    If the latter they may as well have emailed UAE advanced notice

    Well a telegraphed attack does take some time...
    I think Thomas was also dropped before he managed to take over from Kwia at the front.
    I thought Thomas did the final stint on the front of the big climb and stayed in on the descent?
    On the final climb it was Castroviejo, Thomas, Carapaz but Thomas pulled out of the line before Castroviejo pulled off so couldn't do his turn on the front
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    r0bh said:

    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    m.r.m. said:

    Pross said:

    So Castro and van Baarle dropped at the same time or called back as a link for a Carapaz attack?

    If the latter they may as well have emailed UAE advanced notice

    Well a telegraphed attack does take some time...
    I think Thomas was also dropped before he managed to take over from Kwia at the front.
    I thought Thomas did the final stint on the front of the big climb and stayed in on the descent?
    On the final climb it was Castroviejo, Thomas, Carapaz but Thomas pulled out of the line before Castroviejo pulled off so couldn't do his turn on the front
    They aren't talking about the final climb, but the Port d’Envalira. Hence the reference to the big climb, which was Thomas doing the final stint.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    I'm yet to watch this stage, and have avoided the result - is it worth watching?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    daniel_b said:

    I'm yet to watch this stage, and have avoided the result - is it worth watching?

    It's fine, not a massive snooze, not one that will rise you out of your seat.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579

    daniel_b said:

    I'm yet to watch this stage, and have avoided the result - is it worth watching?

    It's fine, not a massive snooze, not one that will rise you out of your seat.
    Cheers - last 50k or so cover things in the main?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    daniel_b said:

    daniel_b said:

    I'm yet to watch this stage, and have avoided the result - is it worth watching?

    It's fine, not a massive snooze, not one that will rise you out of your seat.
    Cheers - last 50k or so cover things in the main?
    Yeah I'd watch from just before the top of the penulimate climb.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,596

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They're not doing much harm though are they? All they can do is try and hope something happens.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    edited July 2021

    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
    Carapaz has already tried the solo attack. What else is left?
    The opposition just sit on his wheel so any other team tactics are nullified.

    I'm guessing that they have considered the just pedal faster tactic.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
    Carapaz has already tried the solo attack. What else is left?
    The opposition just sit on his wheel so any other team tactics are nullified.

    I'm guessing that they have considered the just pedal faster tactic.
    They could use the team earlier in the day to soften up the other teams with a view to getting carapaz down the road earlier in the day, for example.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
    Carapaz has already tried the solo attack. What else is left?
    The opposition just sit on his wheel so any other team tactics are nullified.

    I'm guessing that they have considered the just pedal faster tactic.
    They could use the team earlier in the day to soften up the other teams with a view to getting carapaz down the road earlier in the day, for example.
    They've already tried that IMO. It just doesn't work when they all sit on the wheel and people moan about the Ineos train. Bottom line, it's not due to a lack of trying.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,311
    Ineos came to the front near the top of the cat 2, to lead the descent, didn't they? 60km out with 2 cat 1s ahead. If they worked any earlier they'd be putting Carapaz in the break... Which would be interesting, but I can't see it winning them many friends in the peloton
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615
    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
    Carapaz has already tried the solo attack. What else is left?
    The opposition just sit on his wheel so any other team tactics are nullified.

    I'm guessing that they have considered the just pedal faster tactic.
    They could use the team earlier in the day to soften up the other teams with a view to getting carapaz down the road earlier in the day, for example.
    They've already tried that IMO. It just doesn't work when they all sit on the wheel and people moan about the Ineos train. Bottom line, it's not due to a lack of trying.
    They’ve also tried the train, repeatedly and keep doing it.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
    Carapaz has already tried the solo attack. What else is left?
    The opposition just sit on his wheel so any other team tactics are nullified.

    I'm guessing that they have considered the just pedal faster tactic.
    They could use the team earlier in the day to soften up the other teams with a view to getting carapaz down the road earlier in the day, for example.
    They've already tried that IMO. It just doesn't work when they all sit on the wheel and people moan about the Ineos train. Bottom line, it's not due to a lack of trying.
    They’ve also tried the train, repeatedly and keep doing it.
    What alternative have they not tried?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,311

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    pblakeney said:

    The real problem with ineos tactics is carapaz can't drop Uran after all that effort .

    They should have another tactic in this situation
    The only other tactic is going for stage wins. Guess they are not trying that while there is still a podium place up for grabs.
    You don't always have to put a train on to gain a place, you know.
    Carapaz has already tried the solo attack. What else is left?
    The opposition just sit on his wheel so any other team tactics are nullified.

    I'm guessing that they have considered the just pedal faster tactic.
    They could use the team earlier in the day to soften up the other teams with a view to getting carapaz down the road earlier in the day, for example.
    They've already tried that IMO. It just doesn't work when they all sit on the wheel and people moan about the Ineos train. Bottom line, it's not due to a lack of trying.
    They’ve also tried the train, repeatedly and keep doing it.
    The train did what it was supposed to do, shelled out all the domestiques. They don't have other riders to attack with, the original strat for the race, and Pog and Uran were able to close every gap. The only other rider to be doing much attacking was Vingegaard, who was also closed. O'connor had a couple of goes but paid for it.

    Aside from the train they also had riders up the road to help.

    Ineos did pretty much everything they could, it just didn't get a result because Carapaz doesn't have an edge on any of the others.

    I really don't see much in the way of tactics they could use that's going to solve that.
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