Kids treated like puppies

ugo.santalucia

More and more I see toddlers and kids treated by parents (owners) like young dogs. They need to be tired out appropriately, so that they sleep or they stay quiet during a car journey... some parents take it a step too far and fit their kids with harnesses and leads, presumably to prevent them from chasing sheep or what?

Is this what parenting is about in this day and age?

First.Aspect

Fine by me if it keeps the little Satans put of the way.

rick_chasey

ugo.santalucia said:

More and more I see toddlers and kids treated by parents (owners) like young dogs. They need to be tired out appropriately, so that they sleep or they stay quiet during a car journey... some parents take it a step too far and fit their kids with harnesses and leads, presumably to prevent them from chasing sheep or what?

Is this what parenting is about in this day and age?

I do exactly this.

My daughter has a very fast turn of speed and is very nimble on her feet but has absolutely no road awareness (still) and a tendency to bolt.

If I want her to walk I have to have her on reins else she'll get run over.

Fairly simple. When it's safe, like in a garden or whatever, obviously no reins.

Either that or I'll end up on youtube as an updated version of Fenton.

rjsterry

Pretty sure reins for children have been a thing since at least the 1970s, ugo. You've just not been looking.

TheBigBean

I said to someone once that having kids seemed to be like having a dog. He pointed out the error in my ways - dogs can be trained, do what you tell them and always show you love.

kingstongraham

Maybe having kids is like having a Jack Russell then.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

Pretty sure reins for children have been a thing since at least the 1970s, ugo. You've just not been looking.

More kids should be on reins. Cringe when I see kids of pre school age on the footpath, wandering ahead of parents who are intently studying their phone.

ugo.santalucia

rjsterry said:

Pretty sure reins for children have been a thing since at least the 1970s, ugo. You've just not been looking.

I am a child of the 70s and don't recall such contraptions... I just find it concerning that kids are given a daily routine that is not dissimilar to that of a dog... with set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands...

It is frightening

rick_chasey

ugo.santalucia said:

rjsterry said:

Pretty sure reins for children have been a thing since at least the 1970s, ugo. You've just not been looking.

I am a child of the 70s and don't recall such contraptions... I just find it concerning that kids are given a daily routine that is not dissimilar to that of a dog... with set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands...

It is frightening

It is frightening seeing your kid bolt across a busy road without even considering there are cars.

I guess if they get hit by the car the lesson is learned?

ballysmate

ugo.santalucia said:

rjsterry said:

Pretty sure reins for children have been a thing since at least the 1970s, ugo. You've just not been looking.

I am a child of the 70s and don't recall such contraptions... I just find it concerning that kids are given a daily routine that is not dissimilar to that of a dog... with set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands...

It is frightening

Kids of an age where they need to be on reins, given freedom to experience the world unsupervised?
Are you a parent?

ugo.santalucia

rick_chasey said:

I guess if they get hit by the car the lesson is learned?

The lead is only the metaphor, if you are prepared to fit a lead to your kid, then you are probably prepared to do the rest, which is more concerning

kingstongraham

Once they get into their teenage years, I think it's probably old enough to let them off the lead.

ugo.santalucia

ballysmate said:

Kids of an age where they need to be on reins, given freedom to experience the world unsupervised?
Are you a parent?

You could imagine this scene of a family having a picnic and kids roaming around the woods unsupervised, interacting with wildlife and nature...

And all without the obligatory photo with Mickey Mouse!

Ben6899

Reins have been around for years - I think I was probably hooked into some when I was a feral little ****.

The routine thing that @ugo.santalucia mentions... I have to agree. My brother and his wife, and other friends of ours, have very strict - to the minute - routines for their kids up to about the age 2.5(?). EVERYTHING ELSE falls into place - or not - around that.

Afternoon nap at 2pm, even if the kid is full of beans and playing/interacting. Lunch at this time, dinner at that time etc.

I thought it was odd so asked my mum (and mother in law) if me and my brother (and Miss6899) were subject to such regiment. We weren't. And our parents find it odd too!

rick_chasey

ugo.santalucia said:

rick_chasey said:

I guess if they get hit by the car the lesson is learned?

The lead is only the metaphor, if you are prepared to fit a lead to your kid, then you are probably prepared to do the rest, which is more concerning

People are quick to criticise whatever you do.

For every ugo thinking the kids are mollycoddled there's a First Aspect who is p!ssed off you let your kid run around and annoy them. You can't really win as a parent (in the UK anyway...)

rjsterry

ugo.santalucia said:

rjsterry said:

Pretty sure reins for children have been a thing since at least the 1970s, ugo. You've just not been looking.

I am a child of the 70s and don't recall such contraptions... I just find it concerning that kids are given a daily routine that is not dissimilar to that of a dog... with set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands...

It is frightening

OK, well, they were definitely around. Stop worrying: the toddlers will be fine. Some people find having a more fixed routine helps; others don't. Kids are not all the same. People with no direct experience tutting about the choices parents have made is absolutely guaranteed to wind parents up, though.

TheBigBean

One thing that I do slightly agree with that fits into this subject is books. Everyone I have (admittedly all received for free) seems to have an educational angle. None them are just stories.

pangolin

They were certainly around in the late 80s which is as early as I can remember.

pangolin

Not really sure I get the logical leap from reins to:

"set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands..."

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

One thing that I do slightly agree with that fits into this subject is books. Everyone I have (admittedly all received for free) seems to have an educational angle. None them are just stories.

Big fan of the Julia Donaldson books and they are certainly not "educational" (best known book is the Gruffalo)

ugo.santalucia

pangolin said:

Not really sure I get the logical leap from reins to:

"set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands..."

There isn't... it's just the last straw... when your kid has become so much like a puppy that you are prepared to walk them with a lead.

My idea of child correct upbringing can be seen in the TV series My Yorkshire Farm.

Obviously not everybody has hundreds of acres of moorland at their door, but the idea that kids can be given responsibilities from an early age and can be treated like humans well before they get their GCSE is not complete madness

TheBigBean

ugo.santalucia said:

pangolin said:

Not really sure I get the logical leap from reins to:

"set times for physical activity and mental stimulation, zero freedom to experience the world unsupervised and interactions with adults dumbed down to the very basic... almost to the level of learning to respond to basic commands..."

There isn't... it's just the last straw... when your kid has become so much like a puppy that you are prepared to walk them with a lead.

My idea of child correct upbringing can be seen in the TV series My Yorkshire Farm.

Obviously not everybody has hundreds of acres of moorland at their door, but the idea that kids can be given responsibilities from an early age and can be treated like humans well before they get their GCSE is not complete madness

If it helps, my niece could drive a car before she was 10.

surrey_commuter

am very surprised that nobody has pointed ou that the problem is that people treat their dogs like kids

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

am very surprised that nobody has pointed ou that the problem is that people treat their dogs like kids

Yes, what's with the carrying dogs on a walk thing? I see that a lot and I don't understand.

rick_chasey

Ben6899 said:

Reins have been around for years - I think I was probably hooked into some when I was a feral little ****.

The routine thing that @ugo.santalucia mentions... I have to agree. My brother and his wife, and other friends of ours, have very strict - to the minute - routines for their kids up to about the age 2.5(?). EVERYTHING ELSE falls into place - or not - around that.

Afternoon nap at 2pm, even if the kid is full of beans and playing/interacting. Lunch at this time, dinner at that time etc.

I thought it was odd so asked my mum (and mother in law) if me and my brother (and Miss6899) were subject to such regiment. We weren't. And our parents find it odd too!

I'm not especially strict or rigid but I can sympathise with the nap.

Firstly, the nap is f*cking golden and I almost cried when ours gave it up. Life has been harder since.

Secondly, a well rested child is infinitely easier to deal with, so as well as wanting that golden hour break in the day for yourself, you are also in for a sh!te afternoon if they haven't napped (if they're still napping).

Thirdly, all the advice suggests that young children prefer routine and structure in their lives and I've certainly noticed (having been at home for the last 15 months) that mine really enjoys the routine to the point where she tries to get us back into the routine when it's not adhered to.

Pross

Meh, as a child of the 70s who used to spend all day out in the countryside in my summer holidays from about 10 onwards even I can see that most of these things are just being responsible.

I do, however, think that there are just too many "experts" out there these days making money trying to dictate how parents should behave and often making them feel like bad parents for not conforming. All kids are different and good parenting IMHO is working out what they need to develop as individuals. Keeping them under some sort of control and not leaving them to run feral around other people seems like good manners though.

john80

I have never owned a set or reins for my kids but then live in a rural setting. I have tied a kid onto a yacht at 18 months to keep them from going over the side or down a hatch. Cycling on the road with a 4 year old with no clue as to what left and right is is also pretty stressful from my experience.

Some parents are more tense than others however I don't necessarily see the link between leads and dogs. Most parents are trying to actively get their kids into some sort of routine. Making them do jobs from a early age is also a version of a routine.

amrushton

or you could tell your child that running on the road is dangerous and they hold your hand and walk on the inside. When I was small I was told not to put my hand in the coal fire or play with fire, touch anything hot or sharp. here I am at 61 still ok. my daughter never needed reins because we supervised here and she listened to us. Parenting while being on your phone doesnt really work - thats my observation. I do have to say my daughter was shocked that my friends and I used to play on the scrapyard when were kids. The scrapyard that was unlocked, full of oil, petrol, broken glass and crushed (or nor not) cars piled up 4 deep. what could have gone wrong?

ugo.santalucia

If you look at an episode of the Supernanny and then immediately after you watch an episode of the "badly behaved dogs" show... you will see that the techniques in vogue among those self certified experts are indeed very similar, proving my point

Ben6899

Pross said:

Meh, as a child of the 70s who used to spend all day out in the countryside in my summer holidays from about 10 onwards even I can see that most of these things are just being responsible.

I do, however, think that there are just too many "experts" out there these days making money trying to dictate how parents should behave and often making them feel like bad parents for not conforming. All kids are different and good parenting IMHO is working out what they need to develop as individuals. Keeping them under some sort of control and not leaving them to run feral around other people seems like good manners though.

Basically this is my view. I'm well aware that my nieces - and our friends' kids - generally have routine because it's what has been read in some parenting expert's* book.

*no such thing

rick_chasey

amrushton said:

or you could tell your child that running on the road is dangerous and they hold your hand and walk on the inside. When I was small I was told not to put my hand in the coal fire or play with fire, touch anything hot or sharp. here I am at 61 still ok. my daughter never needed reins because we supervised here and she listened to us. Parenting while being on your phone doesnt really work - thats my observation. I do have to say my daughter was shocked that my friends and I used to play on the scrapyard when were kids. The scrapyard that was unlocked, full of oil, petrol, broken glass and crushed (or nor not) cars piled up 4 deep. what could have gone wrong?

Boomer's gonna boomer.