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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,100
    Daaayym the rowers be gettin' lit yo!!!!



    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ProssPross Posts: 27,085

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."
    Yes it would be fine, but the proposal is that they continue playing in another competition without any change. Much like Megexit, it is tricky to be half in and half out.
    That's up to the Premier league and the FA whether they continue in those alongside the new league (if it happens).

    All I'm saying is that there are closed competitions all over the place in sport without drama - 6 nations rugby, first class cricket etc. I don't see why the government needs to take a view on this one. And for Labour to call for the competition and markets authority should look into this blows my mind a little bit.
    The 6 Nations is a good example of what happens with a closed competition. Italy showed some initial signs of being improved by the regular competition but have relapsed in the last few years. Rugby has the problem that it is only really played in a small number of countries at the highest level though with those countries being spread across opposite sides of the world so if you had relegation from the 6 Nations you would probably just end up with Italy and Georgia (possibly Romania) switching places every year.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,100
    I don't think anyone seriously thinks they can be stopped do they?

    Equally, the Premier League or UEFA are under no obligation to let them play in their leagues. The question is do the ESL teams think they still need them?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 15,920

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 12,610
    When clubs go bust, do players stop playing football forever?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143

    When clubs go bust, do players stop playing football forever?

    they find another club, worst case scenario they move to China or emirates, where money is easy
  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 688

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    But a high profile game is more than just two big teams playing eachother.

    Which would be more high profile, Liverpool v. Arsenal in the charity shield. Or Liverpool v. Everton in the middle of a Premiership season when both are fighting for every point they can get.

  • Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
    And the market price would be substantially lower if any of these clubs went bust.

    There is life in football outside the so-called Big 6.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    ddraver said:

    I don't think anyone seriously thinks they can be stopped do they?

    Equally, the Premier League or UEFA are under no obligation to let them play in their leagues. The question is do the ESL teams think they still need them?

    They will probably come to an agreement. UEFA just wants a slice of the action... Ceferin is a crook, he is the guy who lobbied for the World cup to go to Qatar... god knows how much he pocketed from his friend Bin Hammam....
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    Jezyboy said:

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    But a high profile game is more than just two big teams playing eachother.

    Which would be more high profile, Liverpool v. Arsenal in the charity shield. Or Liverpool v. Everton in the middle of a Premiership season when both are fighting for every point they can get.

    It's irrelevant to the Asian market... that's where the money is. You can sell them an all inclusive once in a lifetime experience to come and watch Arsenal playing Manchester Utd in the Superleague... that's where the revenue will come from... nobody gives a monkey any longer about some long standing loyal scum who pay 30 quid for a ticket to shout some racist abuse... that game is over, for good... and it's probably a good thing.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
    And the market price would be substantially lower if any of these clubs went bust.

    There is life in football outside the so-called Big 6.
    The top 6 are probably the most financially sound clubs... if they go bust, imagine what happens to the rest
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    Ultimately, Perez is right... youngsters don't care for football anymore in Europe... my nephew, who is 13, doesn't give a monkey about football. But football is big in Asia among young people... and they love the Superleague idea... so, who cares about UK fans?
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,434

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
    That's not why lehman's went bust, fyi
  • seanoconnseanoconn Posts: 7,620

    Jezyboy said:

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    But a high profile game is more than just two big teams playing eachother.

    Which would be more high profile, Liverpool v. Arsenal in the charity shield. Or Liverpool v. Everton in the middle of a Premiership season when both are fighting for every point they can get.

    It's irrelevant to the Asian market... that's where the money is. You can sell them an all inclusive once in a lifetime experience to come and watch Arsenal playing Manchester Utd in the Superleague... that's where the revenue will come from... nobody gives a monkey any longer about some long standing loyal scum who pay 30 quid for a ticket to shout some racist abuse... that game is over, for good... and it's probably a good thing.
    Are you in a bad mood today?
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,650

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Not sure the Boat race would be a big draw if it took place 20 weeks in a row.
    My dullest ever day at a live sporting event was an afternoon at the Henley Regatta. So, so tedious. Going once was one time too many!
    you don't go Henley to watch the rowing, you went with the wrong people, you would have had a tedious time wherever you went with them.
    You have no idea who I went with, or what sort of a day I ended up having. As it happens we went to the pub and left the pompous [email protected] on the river bank to their own thing.
    I was commenting on watching rowing on a stretch of the Thames that is only wide enough for 2 boats. It was unbelievably boring after the second or third race.

    I suspect watching it at somewhere like Eton Dorney with 8 boats racing might be more interesting.
    nobody goes to Henley to watch the rowing, the hoorays go to getdrunk and catch up with chums, wannabes go to get drunk and experience "the scene"

    you said you had a tedious day - you went with the wrong people.

    And can I say that going to Henley and complaining about "pompous [email protected] on teh riverbank" is just weird
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
    That's not why lehman's went bust, fyi
    It doesn't matter, even Real Madrid won't go bust because they paid too much for Benzema... the point is that football is a business just like any other... money comes in, money goes out... if more money goes out than it comes in, then there is a problem... when the hole is too big, then the club goes bust
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    ... and then there are Alan Shearer & Co... people who made millions playing football and now they preach that "it's all about the money"... ridiculous
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143
    edited 20 April
    seanoconn said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    But a high profile game is more than just two big teams playing eachother.

    Which would be more high profile, Liverpool v. Arsenal in the charity shield. Or Liverpool v. Everton in the middle of a Premiership season when both are fighting for every point they can get.

    It's irrelevant to the Asian market... that's where the money is. You can sell them an all inclusive once in a lifetime experience to come and watch Arsenal playing Manchester Utd in the Superleague... that's where the revenue will come from... nobody gives a monkey any longer about some long standing loyal scum who pay 30 quid for a ticket to shout some racist abuse... that game is over, for good... and it's probably a good thing.
    Are you in a bad mood today?
    Ha ha... no, I am just frustrated at the all thing. UEFA and FIFA who are notorious crooks, pointing the finger at clubs for essentially wanting to do the same thing without the pimp. Former footballers complaining about the system that made them rich... nobody wants to acknowledge that football is going bust and the only way to save it is to sell it to those who can pay... at their terms...

    People want to go back to an imaginary golden age... it sounds to me a bit like believing the solution is Brexit
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 12,610

    Ultimately, Perez is right... youngsters don't care for football anymore in Europe... my nephew, who is 13, doesn't give a monkey about football. But football is big in Asia among young people... and they love the Superleague idea... so, who cares about UK fans?

    This is isn't really backed up by the evidence available. As I pointed out yesterday TV rights in UK for the premier league generate more than the rest of the world put together.

    The issue is that there hasn't been the growth in revenues that "investors" were expecting i.e. the opposite of what you are saying. They thought the world market would have grown more. Combined with Covid removing the ticket sales the investments are looking a bit ropey. They blame UEFA and FIFA for this loss in value and are looking to do something about it.

    This view is fine, but as I said upthread, they have managed the stunning achievement of making UEFA and FIFA look like the good guys.

  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,434

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
    That's not why lehman's went bust, fyi
    It doesn't matter, even Real Madrid won't go bust because they paid too much for Benzema... the point is that football is a business just like any other... money comes in, money goes out... if more money goes out than it comes in, then there is a problem... when the hole is too big, then the club goes bust
    I'm merely pointing out that either you knowingly used a wrong analogy, you don't know why lehmans went bust or you don't know what you're talking about.

    The 'big' clubs are in no danger of going bust, anyway - the issue is merely that the return on investment hasn't occurred.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143

    Ultimately, Perez is right... youngsters don't care for football anymore in Europe... my nephew, who is 13, doesn't give a monkey about football. But football is big in Asia among young people... and they love the Superleague idea... so, who cares about UK fans?

    This is isn't really backed up by the evidence available. As I pointed out yesterday TV rights in UK for the premier league generate more than the rest of the world put together.

    The issue is that there hasn't been the growth in revenues that "investors" were expecting i.e. the opposite of what you are saying. They thought the world market would have grown more. Combined with Covid removing the ticket sales the investments are looking a bit ropey. They blame UEFA and FIFA for this loss in value and are looking to do something about it.

    This view is fine, but as I said upthread, they have managed the stunning achievement of making UEFA and FIFA look like the good guys.

    My impression is that currently all clubs are operating at a loss and as a shareholder, you are only guaranteed by money pumped in by dodgy sources... being that Russian oil or maybe narcotraffic, who knows?
    If football becomes more profitable, maybe it can attract "better money"?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,269
    I wonder if the ESL have considered "fans" like myself who got bored of the Champions League when it became the same teams competing in the quarter finals year in, year out. Boring. Stopped watching, stopped caring.
    The ESL will be more of the same, and the new Asian fans will get bored too.
    The financial bubble is getting ready to burst so they are blowing up a new bubble.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,100
    The flip side of that PB is that those are (were) about the only football I watched...when they were free to air.

    Not really interested in the mid table mediocrity.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,811

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    Fans disconnect with reality is truly astounding
    Not at all - fans support football for enjoyment. What were they supposed to do - object to their side being catapulted to the elite on the grounds that at some point in the future the new owners might collaborate to create a competition structure they disagree with?

    People could see this coming but have been powerless to do anything about it.
    so you think that a Chelsea/City fan are right to view it as "their" club meaning a sense of ownership that conveys the fans right to a say over and above that of the dodgy chap who bought the club lock stock and barrel and then funded their current gravity defying level of success?
    Well I haven't actually said anything about my opinion on that.

    It depends what you mean by "right". My point was that just because fans accept the world at it is in terms of taking pleasure from the success bought by foreign owners (some of whom funded it by borrowing of course) doesn't mean they forfeit their right to object to the direction of travel football has taken.

    They aren't naive they just put aside their objections because the alternative is becoming a football protester rather than a fan.

    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 12,610

    Ultimately, Perez is right... youngsters don't care for football anymore in Europe... my nephew, who is 13, doesn't give a monkey about football. But football is big in Asia among young people... and they love the Superleague idea... so, who cares about UK fans?

    This is isn't really backed up by the evidence available. As I pointed out yesterday TV rights in UK for the premier league generate more than the rest of the world put together.

    The issue is that there hasn't been the growth in revenues that "investors" were expecting i.e. the opposite of what you are saying. They thought the world market would have grown more. Combined with Covid removing the ticket sales the investments are looking a bit ropey. They blame UEFA and FIFA for this loss in value and are looking to do something about it.

    This view is fine, but as I said upthread, they have managed the stunning achievement of making UEFA and FIFA look like the good guys.

    My impression is that currently all clubs are operating at a loss and as a shareholder, you are only guaranteed by money pumped in by dodgy sources... being that Russian oil or maybe narcotraffic, who knows?
    If football becomes more profitable, maybe it can attract "better money"?
    Think of it as venture capital investment. At some point, they are hoping they will be profitable.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 12,610
    UEFA rankings.

    2 Real Madrid CF
    3 FC Barcelona
    4 Manchester City FC
    5 Juventus
    6 Club Atlético de Madrid
    8 Manchester United FC
    9 Liverpool FC
    11 Arsenal FC
    12 Chelsea FC
    14 Tottenham Hotspur
    26 FC Internazionale Milano
    53 AC Milan
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,143

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    They could consider spending less?
    You could say the same of Lehman brothers... all they had to do to avoid going bust was to stop paying their executives...

    Football is a business like another, they buy and sell assets at the market price... they can't suddenly stop paying players... there are contractual obligations. There are also expectations. The same fans moaning now, were probably moaning last year when the team didn't buy that famous striker...
    That's not why lehman's went bust, fyi
    It doesn't matter, even Real Madrid won't go bust because they paid too much for Benzema... the point is that football is a business just like any other... money comes in, money goes out... if more money goes out than it comes in, then there is a problem... when the hole is too big, then the club goes bust
    I'm merely pointing out that either you knowingly used a wrong analogy, you don't know why lehmans went bust or you don't know what you're talking about.

    The 'big' clubs are in no danger of going bust, anyway - the issue is merely that the return on investment hasn't occurred.
    The big clubs have always been in danger of going bust and were always saved by billionaires pumping in dodgy money... that has certainly been the case for Inter and Milan (Moratti and Berlusconi) and Real Madrid (bailed by tax payers)... and of course Chelsea (Abramovic)... maybe others are marginally better run
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 5,744

    Superleague is a necessity, as Florentino Perez explains quite eloquently on the BBC website.
    Clubs need certainty of revenue from a number of high profile matches, otherwise they'll just go bust. When they go bust, the all game goes bust.

    The rest is just nonsense, from a bunch of romantics who think football should be the same game as it was in 1986 when they were teenagers

    Those big clubs that are close to going bust - it's because they've been betting on big transfers and big wages, spending way beyond their means in the hope of success.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame ??
    Tall....
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