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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    seanoconn said:

    skwarczek said:

    Something very interesting I read earlier about this. Yes, its from the Daily Fail, but still an interesting read

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9486681/European-Super-League-clubs-WIN-court-case-brought-UEFA-FIFA-says-legal-expert.html

    Yep, I suppose it would be naive to imagine the big six lawyers hadn’t covered every possible outcome before moving forward.
    I think they were assuming that the Premier League would not take any action and that the government wouldn't as well. Loss of work permits would make it tricky for them especially now the UK has left the EU.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    Fans disconnect with reality is truly astounding
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    Fans disconnect with reality is truly astounding
    Ha.

    This is where I am really disconnected with football and obviously not a True Fan as I think the revelling in fan induced myopia is always celebrated, as if it's somehow more authentic.
    _
  • Onegear
    Onegear Posts: 76
    I mean, i wouldnt mind tuning in every wednesday night to see Real or Barca pummelling Arsenal or Tottenham, though Im sure the television regulators will get complaints about the graphic and violent nature of the content :)

    Jokes aside, the clubs have long protested FIFA and UEFAs ability to force their players into international duty and silly competitions for money at will. Their threat to remove them from their competitions at will basically proves that point, they can do whatever they want despite the laws and governance and the clubs have no rights.
  • Onegear
    Onegear Posts: 76
    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    Exactly.

    Fans expect 60m£ transfers every window but expect owners to dig into their own pockets. Then they get disgusted when business decisions are made to try to make these transfers happen. Try asking any of these fans for 20£ for any mutual cause and im sure youd get some choice words.

    I am not pro super league but fans need to see the hypocrisy of fans too
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,610
    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,482
    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    Which is why the majority of us have our eyes glaze over when it is on the news, and wonder why it newsworthy in the first place. Nobody cares apart from those involved.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    skwarczek said:

    Something very interesting I read earlier about this. Yes, its from the Daily Fail, but still an interesting read

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9486681/European-Super-League-clubs-WIN-court-case-brought-UEFA-FIFA-says-legal-expert.html

    I can't see how they can expect to play in the Premier League as a legal right given that an integral part of the excitement of the PL is Champions League qualification. It is in effect one system and if you withdraw from the CL you damage the PL. Of course sports lawyers will know more than me but it seems unfair.

    Also what if the PL decides to schedule matches when this new SL wants to play a match?



    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,655
    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    I would guess a lot of "true fans" would semi agree with the sentiment though,and were concerned that it would take this sort of path.

    It'll be interesting to see the long term effects of this. Will the new money want to continue supporting clubs that are half way round the world?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited April 2021
    Jezyboy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    I would guess a lot of "true fans" would semi agree with the sentiment though,and were concerned that it would take this sort of path.

    It'll be interesting to see the long term effects of this. Will the new money want to continue supporting clubs that are half way round the world?
    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12228398/man-city-boss-pep-guardiola-reveals-secret-to-19-game-winning-run-we-have-a-lot-of-money

    I wonder if angry man city fans would, if offered the chance to do it all again, trade in all their competition wins and have premier league mediocrity (as they were pre ownership change) to not be part of the ESL, or have the ESL happen with all their wins.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    I suspect this plan will fail and empower UEFA/FIFA which is a complete disaster. There are many valid criticisms of the governing bodies, but going all in on a closed shop makes them look like the good guys.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    Fans disconnect with reality is truly astounding
    Not at all - fans support football for enjoyment. What were they supposed to do - object to their side being catapulted to the elite on the grounds that at some point in the future the new owners might collaborate to create a competition structure they disagree with?

    People could see this coming but have been powerless to do anything about it.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,226
    edited April 2021
    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."

    Anyway, about first class cricket...
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    Anyone know what the Spanish and Italian governments are saying about it?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    kingstongraham said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."
    Yes it would be fine, but the proposal is that they continue playing in another competition without any change. Much like Megexit, it is tricky to be half in and half out.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    DeVlaeminck said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I do sometimes wonder what fans expect. This to me seems like the logical end point of where the sport was going.

    It became incredibly lucrative in the '10's and fans were happy to take the money from investors to spend on new superstars, but now they're unhappy when the investors make moves to protect their investments.

    These will be the same man city fans who welcomed their super rich owners etc.

    They're not paying to have the worlds best players play for your team for some kind of charity event aimed at your local town....

    Fans disconnect with reality is truly astounding
    Not at all - fans support football for enjoyment. What were they supposed to do - object to their side being catapulted to the elite on the grounds that at some point in the future the new owners might collaborate to create a competition structure they disagree with?

    People could see this coming but have been powerless to do anything about it.
    so you think that a Chelsea/City fan are right to view it as "their" club meaning a sense of ownership that conveys the fans right to a say over and above that of the dodgy chap who bought the club lock stock and barrel and then funded their current gravity defying level of success?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,588
    kingstongraham said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."

    Anyway, about first class cricket...
    Both Oxford and Cambridge will be racing other University teams throughout the year. First class cricket has promotion and relegation plus I doubt there are many counties out there thinking "I want a piece of that but I can't get my foot in the door". I don't think anyone has a massive issue with these clubs being involved in an annual competition with each other (either in addition to or replacing the Champions League). That said, other than fans of the 'Big 6' I don't see it being a down side for other clubs. After a few years of fairly pointless closed door competition there's a chance for other clubs to become more popular.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    is nobody else concerned by Comrade Boris's dangerous lurch to the left (of Corbyn) into a world when he is going to use the powers of the state to punish private companies?

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ESL it can not be right to even suggest you will introduce a harsher visa, tax and policing regime for them.

    With the future heir to the throne as president of the FA we can't even agree on being a banana republic
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,226
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."
    Yes it would be fine, but the proposal is that they continue playing in another competition without any change. Much like Megexit, it is tricky to be half in and half out.
    That's up to the Premier league and the FA whether they continue in those alongside the new league (if it happens).

    All I'm saying is that there are closed competitions all over the place in sport without drama - 6 nations rugby, first class cricket etc. I don't see why the government needs to take a view on this one. And for Labour to call for the competition and markets authority should look into this blows my mind a little bit.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,226
    Pross said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."

    Anyway, about first class cricket...
    Both Oxford and Cambridge will be racing other University teams throughout the year. First class cricket has promotion and relegation plus I doubt there are many counties out there thinking "I want a piece of that but I can't get my foot in the door". I don't think anyone has a massive issue with these clubs being involved in an annual competition with each other (either in addition to or replacing the Champions League). That said, other than fans of the 'Big 6' I don't see it being a down side for other clubs. After a few years of fairly pointless closed door competition there's a chance for other clubs to become more popular.
    Cricket now has promotion and relegation between two divisions - but that's only been since 2000. Before that, the same 17 teams were in the championship from 1921 until 1992 when they added Durham.

    Devon wanted to join, but were turned down. In 1948.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    verylonglegs said:

    Anyone know what the Spanish and Italian governments are saying about it?

    A brief summary on twitter I saw was Italy is similar to the UK and the Spanish reaction was much more muted.
    _
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    pblakeney said:

    morstar said:

    Promotion and relegation don’t affect the top teams unless they really are woeful.

    Ask Leeds fans.
    Took them a long time to go from top the Premier League and Champions League to lower leagues then back to middle Premier League.
    Financial woes could hit any of the big teams if a backer pulls out.
    The first part of that was painfully quick. CL Semi in 2001, relegated to Championship in 2004. Relegated to League 1 in 2007, having been in the Playoff final the year before.
    In the Calendar year 2000 (so across the 99/00 and 00/01 seasons) they won more Premier League points than any other team.

    From 2007 it took 13 years to get back to the Prem.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    You'd imagine Barcelona would be happy with a splinter group league.
    Ben

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  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    I have absolutely no idea why politicians have weighed in on this - they are only going to make themselves look ridiculous.

    Mind you - I don't really care about football and Rick's point has nailed it on the head for me.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Eh? Utterly irrelevant as the Boat Race is, and always has been, a private race between 2 universities. It is not something that the rest of the Unis in the UK have ever been able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in.

    It's the equivalent of a friendly match between 2 local villages.
    So if this competition was a private contest between 15 clubs and wasn't something that the rest of the clubs would be able to qualify for, or even aspire to take part in, that sounds OK?

    The Gemini boat race is a "friendly" brought to you by Gemini, "a simple, reliable, and secure platform to build your crypto portfolio. Buying, selling, and storing your cryptocurrency has never been easier."
    Yes it would be fine, but the proposal is that they continue playing in another competition without any change. Much like Megexit, it is tricky to be half in and half out.
    That's up to the Premier league and the FA whether they continue in those alongside the new league (if it happens).

    All I'm saying is that there are closed competitions all over the place in sport without drama - 6 nations rugby, first class cricket etc. I don't see why the government needs to take a view on this one. And for Labour to call for the competition and markets authority should look into this blows my mind a little bit.
    Football is often a political issue. There's even a Yes Minister episode on why opera receives government funding, but football doesn't.
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Not sure the Boat race would be a big draw if it took place 20 weeks in a row.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,610
    yorkshireraw said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Not sure the Boat race would be a big draw if it took place 20 weeks in a row.
    My dullest ever day at a live sporting event was an afternoon at the Henley Regatta. So, so tedious. Going once was one time too many!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Dorset_Boy said:

    yorkshireraw said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Not sure the Boat race would be a big draw if it took place 20 weeks in a row.
    My dullest ever day at a live sporting event was an afternoon at the Henley Regatta. So, so tedious. Going once was one time too many!
    you don't go Henley to watch the rowing, you went with the wrong people, you would have had a tedious time wherever you went with them.
  • seanoconn
    seanoconn Posts: 11,739
    Dorset_Boy said:

    yorkshireraw said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Not sure the Boat race would be a big draw if it took place 20 weeks in a row.
    My dullest ever day at a live sporting event was an afternoon at the Henley Regatta. So, so tedious. Going once was one time too many!
    You’re not supposed to watch rowing sober.
    Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,610
    surrey_commuter said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    yorkshireraw said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Someone should ask the politicians who say it's unthinkable that the same teams will compete each year what they think about the boat race.

    Not sure the Boat race would be a big draw if it took place 20 weeks in a row.
    My dullest ever day at a live sporting event was an afternoon at the Henley Regatta. So, so tedious. Going once was one time too many!
    you don't go Henley to watch the rowing, you went with the wrong people, you would have had a tedious time wherever you went with them.
    You have no idea who I went with, or what sort of a day I ended up having. As it happens we went to the pub and left the pompous tw@ts on the river bank to their own thing.
    I was commenting on watching rowing on a stretch of the Thames that is only wide enough for 2 boats. It was unbelievably boring after the second or third race.

    I suspect watching it at somewhere like Eton Dorney with 8 boats racing might be more interesting.

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