The Rugby Thread
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I think Itoje is getting too much stick from the BBC (especially McLaughlin who seems to have just discovered his name). Yes, he gave a few penalties away but other than a silly one in a lineout they are because he is living right on the line all the time and it paid off with a charge down from Hardy that would have led to a try if Liam Williams wasn't wide awake.1
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For England supporters I would be most concerned by the fact they have been on a slow downward trajectory ever since the WC semi final win against NZ.
Since then, there has been little change in both match day squads or management structure.
In short they seem to be going stale."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Did anyone mention the mighty Cymru smashed and destroyed the puny English today?.
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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It really doesn't help when your 2, 4, 8, 12 & 15 haven't played club rugby for months. Eddie is an obstinate barsteward and the more there is pressure to make a change, the less he is likely to make it.blazing_saddles said:For England supporters I would be most concerned by the fact they have been on a slow downward trajectory ever since the WC semi final win against NZ.
Since then, there has been little change in both match day squads or management structure.
In short they seem to be going stale.
Eddie also seems haunted by the defeat in the final to SA rather than emboldened by the brilliant semi final performance,
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Loads of mega excuses from england fans here.
#bookofexcuses.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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That first half was very funny.0
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...must be Frenchkingstongraham said:That first half was very funny.
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She is taking a right hammering over on the BBC website for her appalling interviews.Pross said:
They need to change captain.elbowloh said:For at lease a decade now England have had terrible discipline and constantly give away too many penalties and at crucial moments too.
Edit - although he did deal well with that moron Sonia McLaughlin. How she has kept her job so long is a mystery to me.
The unsuspecting BBC have hung her out to dry, by having so many post match moaning (baiting) articles with the HYS option.
It's not as if this fixture doesn't have a history of controversial decisions
6 Nations in 2018, World Rugby ended up confirming Wales should have been awarded Gareth Anscombe's try, at Twickenham.
Not doubt there'll be another doozy or two waiting for fans to fume over in the future."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Just caught up with the match from yesterday. Of the controversial tries the first shouldn’t have happened. As far as I can see it was a combination Farrell winding up the ref, and then the ref being distracted by Biggar’s mind tricks. It just wasn’t fair, and fairness should matter.
For the LRZ/Liam Williams try, I need some help on this as I’m at a loss to see the ball going forward from LRZ? He drops it behind him then it hits an English player behind him and then goes forward. Pundits are saying it was a knock on because he was not in control, but if I look at the laws it states that he has to lose it forward to be a knock on. Are we saying he is so fast he has outrun the forward moving ball or something?
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I didn't watch the match and the video clips I've sen - well, it looks a bit like the cameras were caught on the hop too. So I can't really say whether it was fair or not.secretsqirrel said:Just caught up with the match from yesterday. Of the controversial tries the first shouldn’t have happened. As far as I can see it was a combination Farrell winding up the ref, and then the ref being distracted by Biggar’s mind tricks. It just wasn’t fair, and fairness should matter.
But one thing about it does encourage me - perhaps it might encourage a bit of a reduction in the tendency to treat it like American football, and every time the game stops for a second, an army of water carriers, physios, masseurs, psychologists etc. hhangs around on the pitch.
He does reach behind him for the ball, from where it could potentially go forward even if it doesn't go in front of him, but it looks more like it drops more or less straight down then hits the England player. Perhaps contentious but anyone calling it a "blatant knock-on" is being a bit one-eyed.secretsqirrel said:For the LRZ/Liam Williams try, I need some help on this as I’m at a loss to see the ball going forward from LRZ? He drops it behind him then it hits an English player behind him and then goes forward. Pundits are saying it was a knock on because he was not in control, but if I look at the laws it states that he has to lose it forward to be a knock on. Are we saying he is so fast he has outrun the forward moving ball or something?
But never mind all that. Once again England's entitled expectation that they just deserve to win takes a battering.
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I have a thing about water carriers running onto the pitch every couple of minutes, so perhaps I am not the best person to comment.secretsqirrel said:Just caught up with the match from yesterday. Of the controversial tries the first shouldn’t have happened. As far as I can see it was a combination Farrell winding up the ref, and then the ref being distracted by Biggar’s mind tricks. It just wasn’t fair, and fairness should matter.
Imo, they had no business coming onto the pitch in the first place, since Farrell was only supposed to be having a quick word with his troops.
If you look, they all huddle up underneath the posts, assuming that Biggar is about to kick for goal and it's the wrong assumption.
As for Biggar's mind tricks as you put it, all he did was ask the ref to inform him when he put time back on. He was alert to the possibility that England were sleeping on the job and so was smart to ask.
I found Hardy's try just as shocking, since they were dozing on the job (Daly, I'm looking at you) again.
Virtually every game we hear: "Play on, it's gone backwards," when a player has failed to gather (control) the ball. Often when the player over runs the ball.secretsqirrel said:
For the LRZ/Liam Williams try, I need some help on this as I’m at a loss to see the ball going forward from LRZ? He drops it behind him then it hits an English player behind him and then goes forward. Pundits are saying it was a knock on because he was not in control, but if I look at the laws it states that he has to lose it forward to be a knock on. Are we saying he is so fast he has outrun the forward moving ball or something?
Are we now saying that in all those cases, the ref made a wrong call?
Since the rule about the ball having to hit the turf to be a knock on, I have assumed that to be the case.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
Way to devalue the rest of your post there...bompington said:
But never mind all that. Once again England's entitled expectation that they just deserve to win takes a battering.
When even Jiffy - whose literal job is to be biased towards Wales - is saying it's wrong I think there's a small chance It may possibly have not been the most accurate decision ever made...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Thank you Bompington and Blaze for helping me out, I appreciate your responses to my genuine bafflement.
I missed the point about water carriers being on the pitch as well I’m inclined to agree that the faffing about should be discouraged. I’m not blaming Biggar either the ref says when the time is running or not. Biggar read the situation well, and everything thing happened very quickly after that. But I can understand the frustration it had caused the England players.
I think people might have based their interpretation of the LM try on the look on lRZ’s face more than where the ball went. He may have thought he had knocked it forward, he may have been annoyed with himself for not catching it. Who knows. There have been many times when players have tried influencing the ref by celebrating a try that wasn’t. So in my mind it was a try end of.
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Two referees said otherwise after multiple replays. It definitely looked like a knock on at fullspeed, but I don't think it was.ddraver said:
Way to devalue the rest of your post there...bompington said:
But never mind all that. Once again England's entitled expectation that they just deserve to win takes a battering.
When even Jiffy - whose literal job is to be biased towards Wales - is saying it's wrong I think there's a small chance It may possibly have not been the most accurate decision ever made...
The first try was a bit dodgy, but I don't know how much time Farrell needed to tell himself to roll away quicker.
I think the ref thought he was going to kick to touch, England thought they were going for the posts, and Wales took advantage.0 -
First try. Ref should have ensured he gained England's attention before calling time on. He didn't. Water carriers (both sides) should have been off the pitch before calling time on. Not a single pundit has suggested it was a fair call, even the most biased ones such as Jiffy.
Second - LRZ didn't have control, ball travels forward clearly as LRZ is moving forward (he was over-running the pass), hits his thigh, then the England player. Under the laws that is a knock on. It either hits the turf or another player.
No one has suggested Biggar was in the wrong, or Wales in the wrong for the second, but the first decision clearly wasn't fair and balanced, the second was just wrong.
However, the result will stand and Wales are in the record books as the winners and as taking the Triple Crown.
I'm certain that 'feedback' will be given to the IRB referees section regarding Gauzere's 'performance'.0 -
kingstongraham said:
Two referees said otherwise after multiple replays. It definitely looked like a knock on at fullspeed, but I don't think it was.ddraver said:
Way to devalue the rest of your post there...bompington said:
But never mind all that. Once again England's entitled expectation that they just deserve to win takes a battering.
When even Jiffy - whose literal job is to be biased towards Wales - is saying it's wrong I think there's a small chance It may possibly have not been the most accurate decision ever made...
The first try was a bit dodgy, but I don't know how much time Farrell needed to tell himself to roll away quicker.
I think the ref thought he was going to kick to touch, England thought they were going for the posts, and Wales took advantage.
The referee specifically asked him to have a word with his team though0 -
The ‘must be right cos’ Jiffy said so’ comments are hilarious
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Not a picnic though.diplodicus said:kingstongraham said:
Two referees said otherwise after multiple replays. It definitely looked like a knock on at fullspeed, but I don't think it was.ddraver said:
Way to devalue the rest of your post there...bompington said:
But never mind all that. Once again England's entitled expectation that they just deserve to win takes a battering.
When even Jiffy - whose literal job is to be biased towards Wales - is saying it's wrong I think there's a small chance It may possibly have not been the most accurate decision ever made...
The first try was a bit dodgy, but I don't know how much time Farrell needed to tell himself to roll away quicker.
I think the ref thought he was going to kick to touch, England thought they were going for the posts, and Wales took advantage.
The referee specifically asked him to have a word with his team though0 -
"Roll away quicker, he's a bit whistle happy" doesn't take long.
That was a knock on though - no idea what he was thinking.0 -
True thatkingstongraham said:
Not a picnic though.diplodicus said:kingstongraham said:
Two referees said otherwise after multiple replays. It definitely looked like a knock on at fullspeed, but I don't think it was.ddraver said:
Way to devalue the rest of your post there...bompington said:
But never mind all that. Once again England's entitled expectation that they just deserve to win takes a battering.
When even Jiffy - whose literal job is to be biased towards Wales - is saying it's wrong I think there's a small chance It may possibly have not been the most accurate decision ever made...
The first try was a bit dodgy, but I don't know how much time Farrell needed to tell himself to roll away quicker.
I think the ref thought he was going to kick to touch, England thought they were going for the posts, and Wales took advantage.
The referee specifically asked him to have a word with his team though
I'm not implying England weren't caught out by the Welsh, but if the ref asks you to gather your players to speak to them and then gives the wingers seconds to reset, I can see why they were aggrieved.
For the avoidance of doubt I feel Wales deserved the win0 -
England lose. 'SNOT FAIR!! 😉0
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I am a very Welsh Welshman, and I’ve always thought “jiffy” is a prlck0
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Wasn't just him though, it went to the TMO. I was convinced it was at first and assumed he was just doing a quick check before ruling it out. The more I saw it the less convinced I was that it didn't go directly downwards before hitting the thigh (especially using the 'momentum rule' they apply to forward passes. Now I would put it down as "umpires call", in the absence of a clear knock on call everyone should keep playing in any case but again England seemed to assume it would be called and perhaps eased up a bit in defence.kingstongraham said:"Roll away quicker, he's a bit whistle happy" doesn't take long.
That was a knock on though - no idea what he was thinking.
Conversely, the more I see see of the first try the more I think it was a travesty. I agree with the comments above about huddles and water carriers but Farrel asked permission to have a word and then no way was he given time to get back in position after the ref called time on again. Biggar did nothing wrong though, just played the whistle and executed it perfectly.1 -
He knocked it forward with his right hand, onto his left hand, never caught it and then went backwards off his thigh onto his heel then off the England player. If he can touch it like this, not have it under control and not knock it forward, he's even better than he looks.Pross said:
Wasn't just him though, it went to the TMO. I was convinced it was at first and assumed he was just doing a quick check before ruling it out. The more I saw it the less convinced I was that it didn't go directly downwards before hitting the thigh (especially using the 'momentum rule' they apply to forward passes. Now I would put it down as "umpires call", in the absence of a clear knock on call everyone should keep playing in any case but again England seemed to assume it would be called and perhaps eased up a bit in defence.kingstongraham said:"Roll away quicker, he's a bit whistle happy" doesn't take long.
That was a knock on though - no idea what he was thinking.
Conversely, the more I see see of the first try the more I think it was a travesty. I agree with the comments above about huddles and water carriers but Farrel asked permission to have a word and then no way was he given time to get back in position after the ref called time on again. Biggar did nothing wrong though, just played the whistle and executed it perfectly.
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