Giro 2020 - Stage 21: Cernusco sul Naviglio – Milano 15.7 km ITT *spoilers*
Comments
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OK we agree thenpblakeney said:
What was I expecting? What we've got.bobmcstuff said:
They just ride in the way they think is going to give them the best result don't they... All teams try to defend the jersey when they have it, if they have the manpower - for most of the Giro they didn't. What else are you expecting?pblakeney said:
Apologies. I missed an important bit out.andyp said:
Did we watch the same race? Ganna and Narvaez won from breaks, and Puccio and Swift came close to doing so too.pblakeney said:Not convinced about the rebirth of Sky/Ineos/Grenadiers.
They have reverted to type with the leaders jersey.
If they want to be more race flamboyant then they need someone in the breaks.
On the Stelvio stage, Ganna and Swift were both in the break, with the goal of being ahead of the GC contenders over the top to help consolidate the lead over the other GC riders. Sunweb scuppered that by putting the pressure on from the foot of the climb in their successful attempt to drop Almeida.
After watching the Vuelta I'm not convinced....
So no, not the same race. 😉
Upthread was suggested we have a new Ineos with new tactics. We don't.
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They have the leader's jersey, and with that comes the responsibility of controlling the race, so their tactical options are very limited. At the Giro they did the same when they had the jersey for the opening two road stages, it was only once they'd lost it and, they thought, any chance of regaining it that they switched tactics to stage hunting.pblakeney said:
What was I expecting? What we've got.
Upthread was suggested we have a new Ineos with new tactics. We don't.0 -
There is no rule about controlling the race. Jumbo have lost Dumoulin. Ineos can sacrifice someone in the break and force Jumbo to chase. It won't be easy, but winning a GT shouldn't be. That way they either win stages, or get to the pointy end fresh.andyp said:
They have the leader's jersey, and with that comes the responsibility of controlling the race, so their tactical options are very limited. At the Giro they did the same when they had the jersey for the opening two road stages, it was only once they'd lost it and, they thought, any chance of regaining it that they switched tactics to stage hunting.pblakeney said:
What was I expecting? What we've got.
Upthread was suggested we have a new Ineos with new tactics. We don't.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Ineos have lost two riders. Stick someone in the break and they're suddenly looking thin on the ground.pblakeney said:
There is no rule about controlling the race. Jumbo have lost Dumoulin. Ineos can sacrifice someone in the break and force Jumbo to chase. It won't be easy, but winning a GT shouldn't be. That way they either win stages, or get to the pointy end fresh.andyp said:
They have the leader's jersey, and with that comes the responsibility of controlling the race, so their tactical options are very limited. At the Giro they did the same when they had the jersey for the opening two road stages, it was only once they'd lost it and, they thought, any chance of regaining it that they switched tactics to stage hunting.pblakeney said:
What was I expecting? What we've got.
Upthread was suggested we have a new Ineos with new tactics. We don't.0 -
pblakeney said:
What was I expecting? What we've got.bobmcstuff said:
They just ride in the way they think is going to give them the best result don't they... All teams try to defend the jersey when they have it, if they have the manpower - for most of the Giro they didn't. What else are you expecting?pblakeney said:
Apologies. I missed an important bit out.andyp said:
Did we watch the same race? Ganna and Narvaez won from breaks, and Puccio and Swift came close to doing so too.pblakeney said:Not convinced about the rebirth of Sky/Ineos/Grenadiers.
They have reverted to type with the leaders jersey.
If they want to be more race flamboyant then they need someone in the breaks.
On the Stelvio stage, Ganna and Swift were both in the break, with the goal of being ahead of the GC contenders over the top to help consolidate the lead over the other GC riders. Sunweb scuppered that by putting the pressure on from the foot of the climb in their successful attempt to drop Almeida.
After watching the Vuelta I'm not convinced....
So no, not the same race. 😉
Upthread was suggested we have a new Ineos with new tactics. We don't.
Wait a minute... Were you expecting any change in how they raced the Giro to be instantly adopted corporation-wide in other GTs, including those that had already started several days before? I mean, we can argue about whether the Giro was something new/different, but I don't think even Ineos have an instant organisational rolldown of changes to some strategic/tactical manual.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Shows I've not being paying full attention. Looks like a Roglic win then.Pross said:
Ineos have lost two riders. Stick someone in the break and they're suddenly looking thin on the ground.pblakeney said:
There is no rule about controlling the race. Jumbo have lost Dumoulin. Ineos can sacrifice someone in the break and force Jumbo to chase. It won't be easy, but winning a GT shouldn't be. That way they either win stages, or get to the pointy end fresh.andyp said:
They have the leader's jersey, and with that comes the responsibility of controlling the race, so their tactical options are very limited. At the Giro they did the same when they had the jersey for the opening two road stages, it was only once they'd lost it and, they thought, any chance of regaining it that they switched tactics to stage hunting.pblakeney said:
What was I expecting? What we've got.
Upthread was suggested we have a new Ineos with new tactics. We don't.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
A team like Ineos take their responsibilities seriously. There might not be a written rule that says a team with the leader's jersey control the race, but there is an unwritten one, and Ineos respect that, and earn respect because of it. They won't want to undermine that.pblakeney said:
There is no rule about controlling the race. Jumbo have lost Dumoulin. Ineos can sacrifice someone in the break and force Jumbo to chase. It won't be easy, but winning a GT shouldn't be. That way they either win stages, or get to the pointy end fresh.
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If you're in the jersey and don't do any work, there's a good chance you'll just lose it.
For all the talk of teams deliberately giving up the jersey to remove pressure etc etc, does anyone remember any team ever doing that? Push comes to shove most teams will always keep the jersey.
You don't even need a rule about it unwritten or otherwise - DQS worked to keep Almeida in pink even though he didn't really have a chance of winning, because every day wearing the jersey is a worthy achievement in and of itself.0 -
That's a very different "control" you're talking about though. They're supposed to control who gets into the break (though not only them, see Bora in the TdF), how long the break is given etc. Then they ride piano on the front, carefully not pulling the break back too early (in reality it's probably the break that controls the tempo as much as the peloton). They aren't expected to bring the break back, though they are expected to defend the jersey. In return, they get a fair amount of leeway moving around the peloton, get to call the pee break etc.andyp said:
A team like Ineos take their responsibilities seriously. There might not be a written rule that says a team with the leader's jersey control the race, but there is an unwritten one, and Ineos respect that, and earn respect because of it. They won't want to undermine that.pblakeney said:
There is no rule about controlling the race. Jumbo have lost Dumoulin. Ineos can sacrifice someone in the break and force Jumbo to chase. It won't be easy, but winning a GT shouldn't be. That way they either win stages, or get to the pointy end fresh.
That's not the same as the strategic control Ineos, Jumbo-Visma etc have tried to exert on the race, with e.g. mountain trains that are so fast nobody can attack.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Controlling a race does not mean riding on the front all day, every day.andyp said:
A team like Ineos take their responsibilities seriously. There might not be a written rule that says a team with the leader's jersey control the race, but there is an unwritten one, and Ineos respect that, and earn respect because of it. They won't want to undermine that.pblakeney said:
There is no rule about controlling the race. Jumbo have lost Dumoulin. Ineos can sacrifice someone in the break and force Jumbo to chase. It won't be easy, but winning a GT shouldn't be. That way they either win stages, or get to the pointy end fresh.
Carapaz has zero chance of winning with those tactics.
Especially 2 riders down, they need to do something different.
They should have a rest day tomorrow for example. Let the breakaway get away, let the sprinter teams chase, watch the contenders do the same.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I can't remember all the Giro as from 2000, but for me personally 2000 was one the highlights of the last two decades, not least because I was there for its last 10 days.phreak said:
Sorry, what? 2010 3 stars? I'd rate that the best Grand Tour in the past 20 years.RichN95. said:mididoctors said:Needs the rate the giro thread I guess
Here's the verdict of a wannabe Italian (there's so much to disagree with there)
The top two (Casagrande and Garzelli) were close for the whole second two weeks. I was hoping for Garzelli, and he took (and held on to) the pink jersey only 1-2 stages before the finish.
I'd also rate 2012 highly, because that edition was also tight for the second two weeks (Hesjedal against Rodríguez), and imo an unlikely winner who was made to fight all the way.0 -
Garzelli took the jersey on the last opportunity the race had to offer, since the final stage was pan flat to Milan.jimmyjams said:
I can't remember all the Giro as from 2000, but for me personally 2000 was one the highlights of the last two decades, not least because I was there for its last 10 days.phreak said:
Sorry, what? 2010 3 stars? I'd rate that the best Grand Tour in the past 20 years.RichN95. said:mididoctors said:Needs the rate the giro thread I guess
Here's the verdict of a wannabe Italian (there's so much to disagree with there)
The top two (Casagrande and Garzelli) were close for the whole second two weeks. I was hoping for Garzelli, and he took (and held on to) the pink jersey only 1-2 stages before the finish.
I'd also rate 2012 highly, because that edition was also tight for the second two weeks (Hesjedal against Rodríguez), and imo an unlikely winner who was made to fight all the way.
It was a mountain ITT, coincidentally finishing in Sestriere.
Casagrande had ridden away from the field on Stage 9 finishing at Abetone. Just a few days earlier, Gino Bartali had passed away and I recall his family were there and took places on the podium for the presentations.
Casagrande never seemed like he would lose that lead, right up until he did.
2012? Well, you're on your own there!
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
You'd hope that Froome rides himself into a position to help in the Vuelta as Pantani did in that Giro with Garzelli.blazing_saddles said:
Garzelli took the jersey on the last opportunity the race had to offer, since the final stage was pan flat to Milan.jimmyjams said:
I can't remember all the Giro as from 2000, but for me personally 2000 was one the highlights of the last two decades, not least because I was there for its last 10 days.phreak said:
Sorry, what? 2010 3 stars? I'd rate that the best Grand Tour in the past 20 years.RichN95. said:mididoctors said:Needs the rate the giro thread I guess
Here's the verdict of a wannabe Italian (there's so much to disagree with there)
The top two (Casagrande and Garzelli) were close for the whole second two weeks. I was hoping for Garzelli, and he took (and held on to) the pink jersey only 1-2 stages before the finish.
I'd also rate 2012 highly, because that edition was also tight for the second two weeks (Hesjedal against Rodríguez), and imo an unlikely winner who was made to fight all the way.
It was a mountain ITT, coincidentally finishing in Sestriere.
Casagrande had ridden away from the field on Stage 9 finishing at Abetone. Just a few days earlier, Gino Bartali had passed away and I recall his family were there and took places on the podium for the presentations.
Casagrande never seemed like he would lose that lead, right up until he did.
2012? Well, you're on your own there!0
