Giro 2020 - Stage 7: Matera – Brindisi 143 km *Spoilers*

andyp

Dorset_Boy said:

How many GT winners have never won a World tour level stage race?

Simon Yates' first WT stage race win was the Vuelta, Richard Carapaz's first WT stage race win was the Giro.

RichN95.

Really this isn't just about Pinot but about many teams at the Tour who build most of their Tour team around a GC rider with moderate to poor credentials. And unless you're are going to be the team that does the Sky/Jumbo job, and if you are you need a rider who consistently challenges for wins, it's worth picking a sprinter and lead out or some puncheurs. Pogacar won the whole thing with David de la Cruz and Jan Polanc.
It's a result of dropping teams to eight which some thought would open up racing but has instead restricted team diversity.

RichN95.

Delete

blazing_saddles

RichN95. said:

Really this isn't just about Pinot but about many teams at the Tour who build most of their Tour team around a GC rider with moderate to poor credentials. And unless you're are going to be the team that does the Sky/Jumbo job, and if you are you need a rider who consistently challenges for wins, it's worth picking a sprinter and lead out or some puncheurs. Pogacar won the whole thing with David de la Cruz and Jan Polanc.
It's a result of dropping teams to eight which some thought would open up racing but has instead restricted team diversity.

I was thinking along exactly the same lines.
Sky had Froome and no sprinter, so a dedicated team was a no brainer.
Roglic seems to prefers to ride by the same method. Although it's worth remembering that in 2018 and 2019, Jumbo managed a 3rd, 4th and 5th and had Dylan Groenewegen, plus a lead out man.
Even in 2012, Brad Wiggins and at the time, World Champion, Mark Cavendish managed to successfully share a team, even though the latter wasn't all that happy about it.

Both a sprinter and a GC rider needs a couple of strong rouleurs and they should be interchangeable.
To my mind, if you have a good sprinter and a good GC man, a four/four split makes for a balanced team.
The problems, if any, a more likely to come from a class of egos, than insufficient support.

bobmcstuff

blazing_saddles said:

RichN95. said:

Really this isn't just about Pinot but about many teams at the Tour who build most of their Tour team around a GC rider with moderate to poor credentials. And unless you're are going to be the team that does the Sky/Jumbo job, and if you are you need a rider who consistently challenges for wins, it's worth picking a sprinter and lead out or some puncheurs. Pogacar won the whole thing with David de la Cruz and Jan Polanc.
It's a result of dropping teams to eight which some thought would open up racing but has instead restricted team diversity.

I was thinking along exactly the same lines.
Sky had Froome and no sprinter, so a dedicated team was a no brainer.
Roglic seems to prefers to ride by the same method. Although it's worth remembering that in 2018 and 2019, Jumbo managed a 3rd, 4th and 5th and had Dylan Groenewegen, plus a lead out man.
Even in 2012, Brad Wiggins and at the time, World Champion, Mark Cavendish managed to successfully share a team, even though the latter wasn't all that happy about it.

Both a sprinter and a GC rider needs a couple of strong rouleurs and they should be interchangeable.
To my mind, if you have a good sprinter and a good GC man, a four/four split makes for a balanced team.
The problems, if any, a more likely to come from a class of egos, than insufficient support.

Well they are, except when they're working for GC their job is to shepherd the GC guy to the 3k mark, not to do a lead out. I don't think you can do both on the same day.

They also might find themselves with conflicting goals when there are splits for example. Although that's equally true if you have multiple GC riders.

salsiccia1

The law of unintended consequences? Reduction in team sizes has helped crystallise the need to make that decision.

blazing_saddles

salsiccia1 said:

The law of unintended consequences? Reduction in team sizes has helped crystallise the need to make that decision.

bobmcstuff said:

blazing_saddles said:

RichN95. said:

Really this isn't just about Pinot but about many teams at the Tour who build most of their Tour team around a GC rider with moderate to poor credentials. And unless you're are going to be the team that does the Sky/Jumbo job, and if you are you need a rider who consistently challenges for wins, it's worth picking a sprinter and lead out or some puncheurs. Pogacar won the whole thing with David de la Cruz and Jan Polanc.
It's a result of dropping teams to eight which some thought would open up racing but has instead restricted team diversity.

I was thinking along exactly the same lines.
Sky had Froome and no sprinter, so a dedicated team was a no brainer.
Roglic seems to prefers to ride by the same method. Although it's worth remembering that in 2018 and 2019, Jumbo managed a 3rd, 4th and 5th and had Dylan Groenewegen, plus a lead out man.
Even in 2012, Brad Wiggins and at the time, World Champion, Mark Cavendish managed to successfully share a team, even though the latter wasn't all that happy about it.

Both a sprinter and a GC rider needs a couple of strong rouleurs and they should be interchangeable.
To my mind, if you have a good sprinter and a good GC man, a four/four split makes for a balanced team.
The problems, if any, a more likely to come from a class of egos, than insufficient support.

Well they are, except when they're working for GC their job is to shepherd the GC guy to the 3k mark, not to do a lead out. I don't think you can do both on the same day.

They also might find themselves with conflicting goals when there are splits for example. Although that's equally true if you have multiple GC riders.

That still means that over half the team are at the pointy end of the race at 3kms to go. The GC leader has his chaperone plus one for back up just in case, who can hang around for a further km or so if need be.
So, this argument only applies to sprinters who run the full train.

salsiccia1 said:

The law of unintended consequences? Reduction in team sizes has helped crystallise the need to make that decision.

Which is the point Rich made about the smaller teams resulting in less diversity.